Hi All, New member with questions...... - MVAgusta.net
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
Established Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 196
Hi All, New member with questions......

Hi All,

Just joined the forum on recommendation, and hoping to get some answers before ultimately commiting to an R....


I posted this on the F4 page, and as yet, no much of an opinion, so maybe better in a general room?

Basically, I am almost at the stage of comitting to an R312 or RR312 but have questions relating to both, so don't know if you can help?

I saw that there are 122 R312's on the register, and 35 RR12's

I know thats just the number registered, so may not mean much, but are there fewer made of one than the other?

Why did MV go to 1078?

Why did they go back to 1,000 for the new bike which makes the same as the R312?

I guess the R312 is perhaps a more sought after bike as it was a homologation model for 2008 racing? Is that right? Has it more scope for tuning too, because of that?

I am going to see an R312 again tomorrow, whch has been moved to another shop for me, and it is the more likely purchase of the two I think, but have the option. The shop however, also has the RR312 for not much more, hence my indecision.

The R is only available as a Bip, iirc the RR is Mono, and poss Bip still available.

I like all the colours, but think the pearl white looks awesome.

I am after the more exclusive of the two, and understand the 1078 motor, although the same size as the F4CC, is not the same component wise? Can anyone confirm this?

I will keep the bike standard aside from MV's exhaust system, whichever bike I have.

Are there niggles on one or the other, that the other may not have?

I'm stuck, and although you'll say go with whatever you like best perhaps, I don't know this product at all.

I would like some good opinions, I don't care that thi forum will be biased in favour of MV, as i'm not comparing with other makes

Before you maybe suggest the new one, you should know i'm not remotely into the style or gadgets fitted to the new model, so won't give it further consideration second look, it's gone the way of Aprilia and BMW with multimaps etc.

Also i've not really been a fan of what I call engine 'cheats' to get more power over a market competitor, by hiking the cc, hence I see it as a cheat, as any manufacturer can do that I feel. If the RR is more than that, i'd like to understand. Has it got titanium rods? Is it in fact the F4CC motor?

This will be an addition to the stable, Thanks for any input.

Regards
CarsOrBikes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 04:23 PM
CAG
Senior Member
 
CAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Home. In Dixie.
Posts: 13,695
Send a message via Skype™ to CAG
Welcome aboard.

If you check the MV Agusta USA website, they have a comparison of current and all past models. You might find the information you seek there.
CAG is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-15-2010, 05:42 PM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsOrBikes View Post
Basically, I am almost at the stage of comitting to an R312 or RR312 but have questions relating to both, so don't know if you can help?

I know thats just the number registered, so may not mean much, but are there fewer made of one than the other?

Why did MV go to 1078?

Why did they go back to 1,000 for the new bike which makes the same as the R312?

I guess the R312 is perhaps a more sought after bike as it was a homologation model for 2008 racing? Is that right? Has it more scope for tuning too, because of that?

I am after the more exclusive of the two, and understand the 1078 motor, although the same size as the F4CC, is not the same component wise? Can anyone confirm this?

I will keep the bike standard aside from MV's exhaust system, whichever bike I have.

Are there niggles on one or the other, that the other may not have?

I would like some good opinions, I don't care that thi forum will be biased in favour of MV, as i'm not comparing with other makes

Also i've not really been a fan of what I call engine 'cheats' to get more power over a market competitor, by hiking the cc, hence I see it as a cheat, as any manufacturer can do that I feel. If the RR is more than that, i'd like to understand. Has it got titanium rods? Is it in fact the F4CC motor?
I'm sure others know more about the bike but here goes...

The R312 was available for about 3 years and the 312RR for less than 2 years, additionally the 312 is the bikes pruported top speed and as to my knowlege the first bike marketed with an official top speed of over 300km/h lots of punters bought the bike for that reason alone.

Basically the R312 should be more common but also likely more sought after in the future for the audaciousness of the advertising and company.

The MV brand was reborn for the Italians to go racing (or so the press has always said) and in truth they never really did use the bike as such. The R312 was raced (and successfully) in lower classes however it was not entered in the WSBK championship and will not likely be able to claim racing heritage like its predecessors from the 50's to the 70's. The 1078 is inelligible for racing (as it is over 1000cc).

The 312RR (1078) will be the more exclusive, but my crystal ball thinks the R312 will be the more collectible. The 312RR is more akin to an overbored R312 rather than a detuned CC.

There are some differences between the R312 and 312RR externally they seem to be revised graphics and a slash cut exhast outlets. Internally there is more capacity and I believe a revised waterpump (to aid cooler runneing at low speeds). Other than that the bikes are more or less identical (there are no extra toys that I'm aware of).

The 1078 gained a little power but in truth the capacty hike was to make the bike more user friendly at low speeds, it already made class leading power in 1000cc guise.

The R312 has pages on this forum dedicated to overheating and not actually achieving the advertised top speed, the 312RR on the other hand has very little commentary. On the former as long as you ride it like it was intended overheating isn't an issue (stay away from suburbs and traffic) on the latter how fast do you need to go.

Hope this helps

Andrew...
andrew is offline  
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 05:03 AM
Senior Member
 
wa2fst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,411
Andrew has hit the mark on it.. The 1078 does not have the upgrade impeller pump so it gets just as hot as the 312R. The 312R did race in AMA but not succesfully. The real and only differences in the bike is the motor. And not to split hairs the CC is a 1080CC so it has a bigger motor than the 1078CC. Im not sure if the R has more production than the RR in the states they were only out for a year R in 2008 and RR in 09 now the new for 2010. 150 Rs came to the US I imagine less of the RR. I think MV made the 1078 because they knew they were not going to race it and wanted to actuallly top the 312KM the initially set out to do with the R which the R didnt do. There is no real internal motor differences that I am aware of that anyone has stated. I believe less RR were sold because most people only want a true 1000. The Brutales in my opinion are different to put a bigger motor in them all day long is actually useful or to up sales. different riding and class.(and Mostly old fat guys buy them so they need it to have more power)

So for me would to be the R to buy but if you need to have something really different but always have hear you got an extra kick in the motor then the RR is it. Long term like Andrew said the R will be a little bit favored over the RR because of what it was meant to do and the name. The RR I think will be known as the Bike MV HAD to build to actually do the 312KM. I have the 312R and the rush of power as you get in the pipe is amazing I cant speak for the RR but I know with mine the surge is nothing like my past bikes. And I lucky and was able to buy a full set of RR plastics. But I like the split colors. And if I could have seen a black n white at the time of purchase that would have been what I had bought.

Last edited by wa2fst; 05-16-2010 at 05:59 AM.
wa2fst is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 06:30 AM Thread Starter
Established Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 196
Thanks guys, keep em coming, all opinions and facts are welcome,

I had a look at the MV sites and they are great, but advertising the product, not comparing them the way I am. They are bound to plug the RR over the R, and it is good to read.

I too wonder about the future desires of the R as it is a homologation bike, also produced the same year as the CC which was a ten year celebration, and am curious if the R was a ten year marker in development terms too?

The RR appeals too, because of the torque available, and slightly more power, although power claims alone depend on where the motor makes it, so tractability or rideability can be very different between two similarly powered bikes. It would be good to see comparative standard bike graphs to see perhaps.

I don't mind getting hold of old model bikes that are new still, and have a few like that. The current ilk are becoming equipped with tiny tail units, multi map selectors, and oversized to deal with emissions losses, and have small tanks, traction control, which is ok but should just have one setting imo, so it doesn't become a distraction.

The newest model, for instance described on the MV website as having a crank with 50% more inertia, but basically it is probably twice the weight, so the super fast revving engines of the R & RR are gone for now. It is more than likely a cost issue, which was mentioned on the site regarding the development of the R, due to homologation constraints. Not the case now though, so they are saving wherever poss.

The dash too on the new one is e size of an ipad! The tank loses 4 litres too! All the resin tanks suffer this it seems.

The engine with all it's adjustable trumpets, and secondary injectors, only help it make 186, which is plenty, but going backwards.

I want to feel that the bike I have is the most powerful or unique version of its type, and the R or RR both seem to have advantages, and if I sold a car or two i'd have both of the things maybe until I make an informed choice.

The colour preference seems to be the pearl white over black, but yesterday I saw a blue RR on a site, which was very nice indeed, but haven't seen one anywhere over here.

The brake caliper on the RR is the same as the 1098s I had, but I don't really like how close the pipe is to the wheel rim.

The RR also has CRC in large letters on the side which i'm not keen on.

Does anyone rate the Ohlins steering damper over the Sachs or vice versa?

They say the first three gears are longer on the RR, and state the speeds per gear.....can anyone say how these differ to the R? I quite like long gears, and my Apriias have both got close ratio sets with quite long gears compared to others.

Thanks for replies
CarsOrBikes is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
Established Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 196
I asked the shop about overheatng issues, and they dismissed it as a current problem, which they would I suppose.

The tech said there is a vagueness with the level marker, and when to check it, so the bike although it runs hot, will throw out only what it doesn't want.

My 999r Fila did the same.
CarsOrBikes is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 08:15 AM
Senior Member
 
proddieracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Milton Keynes UK
Posts: 517
Not that I am biased but I bought the 312RR 1078cc Monoposto. Why:

It's just more really for very little extra cash.

Variable inlets
titanium valves
Forged Marchesini wheels

I am sure there are many other reasons but the biggest single one for me was real life useability and with the much higher torque at 2000 revs less i reasoned that in 90% of riding it would just be easier.

I had my headers wrapped and Engine Ice put in. I manage the temps now by reving the engine at stop lights etc. No more puke up's since the first ride.

At 1st service I will decat it and that will do me.


A

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends ?
proddieracer is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
Established Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 196
I didn't think the RR had variable inlets? Wasn't that on the Tamburini, CC, and the '10 model? How I understood from the website/s at least.

The R has forged wheels too, but Brembo, also ti valves according to the same.

Still learning.......
CarsOrBikes is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 07:04 PM
Senior Member
 
svldvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 655
Man...good thread..I learned a lot about the R & the RR.

~Serge~
svldvc is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-17-2010, 01:01 AM
Senior Member
 
wa2fst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsOrBikes View Post
I didn't think the RR had variable inlets? Wasn't that on the Tamburini, CC, and the '10 model? How I understood from the website/s at least.

The R has forged wheels too, but Brembo, also ti valves according to the same.

Still learning.......

Not sure about the inlest the website will be a better source on that. and Yes the R has Forge Brembo Im almost positive the 1078 had Brembo as well. Which are lighter than the March. Forged. and the Ti valves are on both. Very little differences other than the bigger motor.

And yes they all have a heating issue not while riding but in stop and go traffic. And there are many ways to cure it. Upgrade Impellar on the water pump, wrap the headers De Cat it. Engine ice instead of Anti Freeze.
wa2fst is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to use all of the features of the MVAgusta.net site, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome