fuel mileage < 25mpg with new 1/2 system on my 910R - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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fuel mileage < 25mpg with new 1/2 system on my 910R

as most of you know i had my new non-cat midpipe and cans put on a couple of weeks ago.
better FI
very smooth
great sound
more power
less weight

all that
today.....
i finally took it through its paces
and......

the mileage...
24.5
the smell of RAW GAS everytime i roade it VERY HARD
the usual STRONG SMELL of EXHAUST at idle
my friend was riding behind me on his 'busa... LOVES the brute....
but, ALSO smelled RAW GAS everytime i was hard on the gas

probably means nothing
NO, i have NOT bought a PCIII yet....
i must.... then, have the bike properly dyno'd

then..... we'll see

sound strange to any of you?

thanks in advance for your thoughts



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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 11:53 AM
 
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Sounds like it's running excessively rich. The instructions with the new EPROM call for C0% at idle to be between 3.5 and 4.5%. I reset mine to ~4% the other day and it runs very crisply. I never smell raw gas, even at idle it doen't smell of excessive hydrocarbon.

Adjusting the fuel trimmer on the MM1.6 module alters the entire fuel map. In other words, leaning the mixture at idle results in leaner running throughout the map. I suggest putting it on an exhaust sniffer.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koop
Sounds like it's running excessively rich. The instructions with the new EPROM call for C0% at idle to be between 3.5 and 4.5%. I reset mine to ~4% the other day and it runs very crisply. I never smell raw gas, even at idle it doen't smell of excessive hydrocarbon.

Adjusting the fuel trimmer on the MM1.6 module alters the entire fuel map. In other words, leaning the mixture at idle results in leaner running throughout the map. I suggest putting it on an exhaust sniffer.

thanks for your thoughts
the funny thing is that when i got the bike back from the shop (remember, that i had THEM do the install) it's been running better than ever
>75% of my FI problems vanished with the new EPROM and 1/2 system install...
leaning out the bike at idle might very well screw with the smoothness....
and i don't want that

so...
i need that PCIII/USB and dyno
maybe.....
i'll just ship the bike to JOHN/airfuel and have HIM do it for me.... the right way

he's the one i'd trust the most
that sure would be a COSTLY DYNO... having to ship the bike to and from florida



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'07 Brutale 910R
'07 BMW K1200GT

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 02:04 PM
 
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My stock 910 only gets about 25 to 28 MPG when run hard, which is most of the time. The only exhaust or performance modification is an Aero mid-pipe. She runs great but the Brutale is a thirsty girl.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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yeah......
she does like to DRINK.....
but, it's a small price to pay for all the "entertainment" that comes from twisting that throttle



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Clearwater, FL USA

'07 Brutale 910R
'07 BMW K1200GT

live like you mean it...
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 03:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spalding12
thanks for your thoughts
the funny thing is that when i got the bike back from the shop (remember, that i had THEM do the install) it's been running better than ever
>75% of my FI problems vanished with the new EPROM and 1/2 system install...
leaning out the bike at idle might very well screw with the smoothness....
and i don't want that

so...
i need that PCIII/USB and dyno
maybe.....
i'll just ship the bike to JOHN/airfuel and have HIM do it for me.... the right way

he's the one i'd trust the most
that sure would be a COSTLY DYNO... having to ship the bike to and from florida
Greg, you really should consider taking it back in to have the CO adjustment made. If it's rich enough to smell raw gas in the exhaust then you are most likely washing the cylinders - leading to ring wear, and diluting the crankcase - which breaks down the oil.

They should have checked/adjusted CO when installing the pipe and EPROM. It's clearly spelled out in the instructions.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koop
Greg, you really should consider taking it back in to have the CO adjustment made. If it's rich enough to smell raw gas in the exhaust then you are most likely washing the cylinders - leading to ring wear, and diluting the crankcase - which breaks down the oil.

They should have checked/adjusted CO when installing the pipe and EPROM. It's clearly spelled out in the instructions.
Mike
they insisted that they did that
but....
i think i'll bring it back next week some time
between this issue and that of my brake master cylinder being replaced TWICE on my new GT..... i've been in there so many times



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'07 Brutale 910R
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 04:24 PM
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Some say that PCIII are useless because they only work good at the weatherconditions they are dyno'd to. When weather, temperature, height over sea and stuff changes you might loose power.

Anyone who can confirm/disconfirm this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spalding12
NO, i have NOT bought a PCIII yet....
i must.... then, have the bike properly dyno'd
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 04:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Blake
Some say that PCIII are useless because they only work good at the weatherconditions they are dyno'd to. When weather, temperature, height over sea and stuff changes you might loose power.

Anyone who can confirm/disconfirm this?

I'd have to call it myth. The PCIII modifies the original map, it adds or subtracts pulse width. The original map in an Alpha/N fuel injection system is based on inputs from rpm, throttle position and pressure sensors (may be just barometric or may include manifold or airbox pressure signals to compensate for any ram effects).

Therefore, if the PCIII is only adding or subtracting pulse width from the programmed map, and the programmed map changes with air density how can PCIII only work at the dyno'd air density?
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Blake
Some say that PCIII are useless because they only work good at the weatherconditions they are dyno'd to. When weather, temperature, height over sea and stuff changes you might loose power.

Anyone who can confirm/disconfirm this?
When the weather conditions change you can loose power regardless, it depends on how the conditions are changed. In regards to the power commander you have two types of systems (FI systems). The simple or open loop systems use on some bikes will use sensors such as barometric pressure sensors, MAP sensors and temperature sensors and determine the mass of air entering the engine at any given time. The FI then uses that data and some algorythm to determine how much fuel to add at that particular time. That is, it determines where it is on the map and adds a specified amount of fuel. A closed system basically takes this one step further by measuring the O2 in the exhaust gas and determines whether you are rich or lean compared to the map and corrects for the error.

The PC alters the map by some user specified input. You pick a point on the map and based on your dyno-tuning say I want this point to be X amount richer or leaner. As far as the ECU is concerned it still thinks you want the OEM installed map; the PC is what changes how much fuel is delivered. From what I understand, the old PCIIs used to fool the ECU by changing the signals it recieved from the sensors, the newer PCIII takes the output signal to the injectors and alters it to deliver the amount of fuel required. I may not be 100% right on that, but that is my understanding. Regardless, the power commander will alter the signal to deliver a certain percentage change which produces more power. If you go to altitude you will loose power simply because of the altitude change. But if you've altered the FI map so that is optimized at sea level, it will still be optimized at altitude.
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