Starting Issue - Resolved (Long) - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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Starting Issue - Resolved (Long)

The F3 was gradually getting harder to start. I checked all the typical well known issues (sprag, battery etc) and made sure these things were handled. As most of the forum knows this is a race/track only machine and it is well maintained.

So I started looking into non typical areas. Thus I disassembled much of the motorcycle to start the process. Changed out the fuel filter and fuel pump. Cleaned and oiled the MWR air filter & airbox, washed out the fuel tank with dish soap & water, scrubbed everywhere I could reach through both openings with dish, bath and bottle brushes then compressed air, then let it have a day in the sun to dry out anything possibly still trapped, finally reassembled and put in fresh fuel. Put in new plugs. Swapped to the spare ECU. Checked valve clearances and cam chain tension. Still didn't want to start normally.

Now I'm puzzled. What is the problem? Disassembled again. What is wrong with this thing, did I forget to do something?

So just to be certain I was leaving no stone un-turned I pulled all 6 injectors and had them cleaned, filters & O-rings replaced and then flow tested. Yes your injectors have tiny filters inside them! Reinstalled and reassembled the whole thing after checking everything again to be sure I had not made any mistakes or left something not reassembled properly.

Powered up the electronics and waited a few seconds for fuel to pressurize the empty fuel rails. Hit the button and it fired up almost instantly.

So - I called my injector cleaner guy to find out what he found. He tested before cleaning and again after. He found the injectors where really dirty, the lower injectors where nearly clogged, the uppers were not so bad but still nowhere near 100% of the manufacturers specified flow rate.

What now? Well I've started using a filter to put fuel in the tank. I'm going to change in tank filters much more often and if the bike is going to sit for more than a week or two, I'm going to drain the tank and run it dry. I've decided that yearly injector cleaning is now a maintenance item.

I'm speculating that the race fuel is not as clean as it should be. I'm not sure why this happened.

The Fuel Injector guys said that all fuel additives are really crap and should not be used - octane boosters, lead additives, Stabil, SeaFoam, FI cleaners and stuff like that. They said they base that on the 10's of thousands of injectors they clean and refurbish that owners claim they used these products and the crew have found those injectors to be in the worst condition. I'm going to believe them and use nothing but fresh fuel from now on.

One more thing to keep on top of. I recommend changing the in tank fuel filter regularly.

If you are not a good mechanic, have a shop do it. It is part of the fuel pump assembly and requires special pliers to remove the cheap clamps used by the factory. I have two sizes of those from my Ducati dealership days but if you do the change yourself maybe just snip off the cheap clamps and buy some nice small hose clamps that can be used over. While your in there you might get some really good fuel proof hose and eliminate the very cheap plastic hose that can crack in time.

I hope this ordeal can help other F3 owners in the future. Maybe I suffered this so others will not. LOL

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 10:33 AM
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As always appreciate your info and helping others out on the forum. With what your saying i am thinking i need to go ahead and swap my filter prior to putting on my new gas tank.
Never used any additives and for the winter was planning on putting in ethanol free fuel.
Do you happen to have a part# for the filter?

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 10:46 AM
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Interesting ..... I do know that race fuel can deteriorate some components in the system, even if you drain the tank and run pump gas to flush after each event. Certain older GSX-R1000 fuel pumps had to be replaced routinely on race bikes running race fuel because they would fail after a few races with no real warning.

Maybe the filters in the injectors are deteriorated by race fuel??? Would explain your issue and findings, since Emissions Regulations and Federal Emissions Warranty require minimum service life of at least 5 years or 30,000 kilometers in street legal motorcycles. (more in autos, less in bikes under 500cc and off road)

As for the hose clamps, McMaster-Carr sells them, very inexpensive... less than 40 cents each.... but you do have to buy a bag of 25.

SAE J1508 item #52545K45

Who do you use for injector service? I know a really good shop in Mooresville NC, That's Dale Earnhearts home town. Race City Injector. Inexpensive and quick turn around.

https://racecityinjector.com/
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 10:49 AM
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@jdgun ... There are threads in the Tech section about fuel filters. The Mahle filter is available from a number of suppliers, but there are also Napa and Wix filters that can be substituted which are less costly and available at your local auto parts supply.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Ed - I think the race fuel isn't doing the system any favors. On several of my Ducati's the fuel pump & filter became a regular service item because of race fuel. That said the injectors never were any problem. So this was a new discovery. I'll keep using race fuel though because the head gasket in this F3 is about as thick as a piece of paper and even with 93 octane/no alcohol we'd have to take timing out of the thing to keep it from knocking & rocking. Better to have 100+ and no detonation concerns. Full power is really fun!

jd - The fuel filters that fit the triples are really a very common size/shape so there are a bunch of options. Atima Small Engine Fuel Filter, 40-Micron is about the cheapest - like $5. BTW I use the Mahle filters because it meets the req'd spec

The place I use for injector cleaning does a lot of injectors. It is my understanding that they do this for Yamaha Marine nationwide and many other business as well. Yamaha Fuel Injectors

D23
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 11:41 PM
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Ducati23;
I'll assume the hose clamps are Clic-R clamps.....the correct pliers are available on eBay for $10, free shipping.
Why go to the stealership?
You're using the wrong filter......you need a 10 micron filter for rail injectors, 5 micron for direct injectors
40 micron filters are for carbs
Your race fuel isn't necessarily very clean and it's in fuel cans that get dumped from drum to can to tank, exposed to flying stuff in the air

Fuel is treated differently here......if your vehicle dies on the 405 freeway at rush hour, you'll fuck the commute of 50,000 cars
The CHP has big push bars on the fronts of their cruisers......they just shove you off the freeway, so traffic keeps going
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 06:08 AM
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@theknurl ... The new bikes aren't using Click-R clamps in the fuel system. They use a single use Tight-Seal clamp.

https://www.mcmaster.com/52545k45
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Like Ed said. The correct pliers have these odd looking almost little pitch fork looking end that straddle the small tab. Relatively complex for a pliers. IMO opinion a hose clamp is likely good enough. Maybe the engineer specified a constant pressure clamp? Maybe a hose clamp isn't the best way to clamp the hard plastic PFTE hose? I don't really know or care all that much since I swapped the hoses out for a softer reinforced Gates submersible fuel hose & the small hose clamps.

I laughed to myself when Ed recommended the McMaster-Carr clamps, because that is where I get all that small hardware from. They come in a small box BTW.

Knurl - I always use the specified filter. I agree the race fuel does get transferred from the drum into fuel cans. I buy 55 gallon drums, keep them cool, dry and sealed then pump fuel into cans just before I leave for the track. Now I'm filtering (10 micron screen) it during the transfer and filtering again going into the bikes. Don't know if it will help but it can't hurt.

Like I said earlier, been doing this a long time and have learned during that time how to care for these things. So the injector condition was an unexpected issue. I suspect that is would take much longer for pump gas to cause similar issues if at all. Just sharing the experience with everyone who happens to read it. Cheers

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Today, 01:00 AM
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The correct pliers are Knipex System Oetiker #1099......#1098 the 90 ones are ~$14 at Home Depot
Spend the big money and do it right .....these are mine
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