F3 800 throttle response - For real... - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:48 AM Thread Starter
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F3 800 throttle response - For real...

Ok, so I've read tons of threads (mostly old ones) on this forum regarding F3 throttle response in low RPM's. Most of the threads end up with one of the following conclusions:
1. Jerkiness is solved in newer models and maps.
2. Custom map settings have solved it.
3. "Relax your upper body"


Now I don't completely agree on this...


I have a 2018 F3 800 RC with the RC ECU and map (tuned for race decat exhaust system) and SC-Project exhaust. EDIT: Not decated. My mistake.


The bike simply cannot deal with varying low speeds below 60km/h, especially on uneven surfaces (speed bumps etc.). It is especially jerky going from 0 throttle to throttle engaged. This even applies to relatively high speeds. This is mitigated by feathering the clutch a lot.


1. It is implied by my bike model and ECU map which was downloaded recently at the dealers that the bike is almost as new as it can get. Model year or map version is out of the question.
2. Setting "Throttle Response" to Rain mitigates some of the pains, but only slightly, and is in my eyes an unacceptable solution as it makes the bike so much more "lame". Sport throttle response is completely useless. I have of course fiddled with all the other custom map settings without any particular luck.
3. In the beginning I was convinced that the relaxing of the upper body and gripping with legs would sort this out, but it does not. I can be as loose and relaxed as possible, but I am still unable to cruise through low speed zones without sounding like an absolute idiot on the jerky throttle as soon as the bike needs to change speed because of traffic or uneven surfaces.


Of course you kinda get used to it in the long run but as soon as you try another bike that wasn't neglected in the EFI R&D department, you realize how bad it actually is.


So the question is: Has anyone ACTUALLY solved the issues of jerky throttle on this bike? I am not talking about mitigating workarounds like rain modes or brand-pride (:P).
I am interested in hearing the experiences of those who run completely custom maps with PCV units etc and or other modifications made to the bike. I would imagine sprocket gearing also may affect the response in some way.


I really really love my F3, but this part is mindblowingbly annoying for such an expensive bike.

Loud pipes don't save lives. Loud pipes just sound cool to egotistical riders like me

Current bike: 2018 MV Agusta F3 800 RC
Previous bikes: 2013 KTM Duke 690, 2015 KTM RC 390

Last edited by SneakyOwl; 08-06-2019 at 02:18 PM.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 05:51 AM
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This is a common complaint for all ride-by-wire bikes....Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki included.
True for a lot of hyper bikes that aren't ride-by-wire too.
Almost impossible to get a smooth near idle throttle and still have a performance bike.

It's all in the right wrist. Let's face it, the bike does not want to go slow.

I used to be fast....now I just dream about it.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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I am fully aware, but even so... Get on any other expensive fast bike with ride-by-wire and they will instantly feel better than the F3s currently do (but not perfect of course).

My previous KTM Duke 690 (one BIG aggressive cylinder) also had it's jerkiness problems with the ride-by-wire, but after opening the exhaust, remapping, O2 mod* and gearing it was mostly mitigated and made much smoother than my current experience with the F3.

*O2 mod was a device that I believe tricked the bike to use the "open loop" mapping for the entire throttle walk, and not using the 20% first throttle opening in the so called "closed loop" made for enviromental purposes. Very poorly explained and probably technically incorrect. I wonder if the MVs have something similiar?

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Current bike: 2018 MV Agusta F3 800 RC
Previous bikes: 2013 KTM Duke 690, 2015 KTM RC 390

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 06:12 AM
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Yeah, that does suck. I had the first model SuperDuke, and that thing was a beast to ride slow(round-a-bouts etc)It was just an on/off switch.
It was only an after market map and removing the ecu controlled butterflies and O2 sensor that fixed it (they had 2 sets of butterflies for each throttle body)

I've got the standard power Brutale and have always found it to be sweet in the low range (for a sport bike)

Maybe getting it properly mapped on a dyno is the answer.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 10:15 AM
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I run the race map on my 2018 Brutale 800RR. It is very smooth, absolutely no probs. Also in the serpentines in the Alps.


As far as I know the race map is for the OEM manifold WITH CAT IN and the SC Project can.
If you run this mapping with a race header with no cat it of course runs lean.


Had mine mapped for open airbox and it is perfect in throttle response.


One more idea:
check and clean the plugs of the throttle wire. I heard from one RC where the plugs had a problem. After cleaning and reinstalling the prob was solved.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 11:12 AM
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I agree with @cherche custom mapping is needed, my throttle response on the F4 is much better now and the same with the 3 cylinders. All the stock maps RC or not, are best approximations.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 12:49 PM
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If you use the ECU studio to map the ECU and dyno tune you can get great running and smooth throttle.

On my F3 to get the bottom response really smooth I had to richen the small opening, low rpm settings a little. Maybe others did not IDK? That seemed to work.

When using the Forward Racing/Reparto Corse Race ECU that I have, it is abrupt at low rpm, small throttle openings and the bike starts a bit harder too. Smooth as an electric motor once rpm starts to rise.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherche View Post
I run the race map on my 2018 Brutale 800RR. It is very smooth, absolutely no probs. Also in the serpentines in the Alps.


As far as I know the race map is for the OEM manifold WITH CAT IN and the SC Project can.
If you run this mapping with a race header with no cat it of course runs lean.


Had mine mapped for open airbox and it is perfect in throttle response.


One more idea:
check and clean the plugs of the throttle wire. I heard from one RC where the plugs had a problem. After cleaning and reinstalling the prob was solved.

As far as I know, the cat is in the huge triple exhaust outlet of the stock exhaust (which weighs a TON). Might be one in the manifold as well, which is original on mine (mine is RC specced, nothing more).
So yours was custom mapped, or MV mapped for open airbox? Airbox is not part of the RC map or accessories.
It sounds strange that cleaning plugs for the ride-by-wire would do anything. The signals are AFAIK digital. It gets through or it doesn't. But I'll look into it anyway, thanks!

It is reassuring that there are success-stories with running custom maps out there.
I am new to ECU Studio. Is there a "preferred guide" on the forum somewhere to start? Is there a special ECU needed, or is it made able to read existing settings and overwrite stock/RC ECU?
Edit: Found this: http://www.ecustudio.com/support/ECU...Guide%20v1.pdf



Ducati23: Yep, that's my experience with the RC ECU as well. It is buttery smooth in mid to higher RPMs. I can only imagine how nice it would feel to have the same smoothness at the lower end as well.

Loud pipes don't save lives. Loud pipes just sound cool to egotistical riders like me

Current bike: 2018 MV Agusta F3 800 RC
Previous bikes: 2013 KTM Duke 690, 2015 KTM RC 390

Last edited by SneakyOwl; 08-06-2019 at 01:52 PM.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:04 PM
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ECU studio will work on any of the eldor MV ECUs, so the stock MV or RC and you can use one from a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder they are all the same only the firmware (flash) changes

If you want the latest manual for ecustudio v4.1, I can always send it to you and I have a video of a flash etc.

Register on their support site and ask your questions.

Only 1 Cat on the F3 and F4, both in the headers just behind the O2 sensor. When you cut the CAT out did you remove the exhaust valve?

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansoarr View Post
ECU studio will work on any of the eldor MV ECUs, so the stock MV or RC and you can use one from a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder they are all the same only the firmware (flash) changes

If you want the latest manual for ecustudio v4.1, I can always send it to you and I have a video of a flash etc.

Register on their support site and ask your questions.

Only 1 Cat on the F3 and F4, both in the headers just behind the O2 sensor. When you cut the CAT out did you remove the exhaust valve?

Ah, excellent, thank you for the clarification. I've found enough information on the web for now to understand it somewhat. Details can wait until I eventually get the kit myself. For this exact purpose of smoothening the low end, I can probably figure it out as long as I can start from the "baseline" of the current RC map. For further tuning, I'll probably leave it to some professional tuners to fiddle with.

If the cat is in the headers, then I have not removed it, and the exhaust valve is still present.

Makes me wonder why the stock exhaust end is so god damned heavy if there isn't even a cat in it.

See picture. That's all I've removed and replaced with the RC "slipon" SC-Project exhaust.
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Loud pipes don't save lives. Loud pipes just sound cool to egotistical riders like me

Current bike: 2018 MV Agusta F3 800 RC
Previous bikes: 2013 KTM Duke 690, 2015 KTM RC 390

Last edited by SneakyOwl; 08-06-2019 at 02:20 PM.
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