Rivale cold start bad idle/throttle response - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
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Rivale cold start bad idle/throttle response

Greetings to all,

I have searched the forum regarding this issue but I haven't found any threads with the exact same symptoms as mine. If a thread like this does already exist, I apologize in advance for my incompetence in using the custom search function however I tried my best for the past 2 weeks..

I've had my 2014 Rivale since early December, 2018. I test rode the bike a few times over a period of 2 months before I made the purchase. On the first day of viewing the bike I didn't get to test ride it however we fired it up and let it idle. I noticed that the throttle response was delayed by a few milliseconds where I would blip and release the throttle then the revs on the bike would climb then drop.. I was quite confused by this and I noticed that the low fuel light was on so I assumed it was caused by the low fuel..

After I purchased the bike I realized that on cold starts the throttle is unresponsive. I have to continuously blip the throttle to have enough revs to move the bike by slipping my clutch Since I live in an apartment building and the bike has a QD power gun exhaust with no baffles, I tend to fire up the bike and proceed to exit the apartment compound immediately and slowly as I did previously with my old bikes before the neighbours get on my case.. Now with the unresponsive throttle, I cannot ride the bike unless I slip the clutch at over 5k rpm so I am now forced to push my bike outside the apartment compound to let the bike idle and have temps rise, the Rivale temp gauge has 8 bars in total (for reference). I have to let the temp gauge reach at least 2 bars from cold to have a more acceptable and ridable "normal" throttle response. Once the bike reaches optimum running temperature everything is fine.

Some points to note;
Bike was serviced upon purchase (engine oil, oil filter and coolant only).
I bought the bike with a faulty left switch so I couldn't change any settings, I would ride on Normal map and TC on 5.
Since fixing the left switch, I managed to set up a custom map and reduce the traction control to 1.
Bike has 25,000kms+ / 15,500miles+

Till today, the bike still has lousy throttle response when cold, unfortunately I do not have the luxury of having access to a dealer locally. The ECU has also never been updated since 2014 (According to previous owner whom imported the bike with 0kms). I can only do with what I got, my mechanic told me that it could be the plugs and the valves need clearances checked.. Has anyone else experienced these issues? Is it time to replace my throttle by wire? Adjust TPS? Time to get the valve clearance done with spark plug change and service? Or could it simply be the intake hoses or intake housing assembly not tightened to spec?

We (my mechanic and I) shall go over everything prior to going into the engine probably this weekend or next as lately I have been too busy with work. Any valuable inputs are highly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 06:45 AM
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First, I would like to commend you for being considerate of your neighbors. It is unfortunate that your bike is so loud.

On the subject of your hard starts from cold there are a few things to consider.

Is the exhaust system a full system, or just a slip-on with the catalytic converter intact?

If the bike has not be tuned to the exhaust that will compound cold start issues.

The ECU controls cold starting and should compensate for temperature by adding fuel and increasing idle. If your system has not been tuned or updated since new, then there is a need to have the ECU updated.

Other things that cause issues include, as you suspect, degraded rubber in the intake system and vacuum lines leading to the throttle body synch ports. Ensure the caps are on those lines.

Faulty plugs can have an effect and lead to hard starts. I would replace those with NGK Iridium plugs.

Finally, I would pull the fuel tank and service the fuel filter and internal tank fuel lines replacing those lines with quality J30 R10 immersible hose and replace the fuel filter.

If you don't have your bike's manuals, they are available here: Team Double 3 Racing | MV Agusta (Give Donsy a virtual hug next time you see him on here for doing the bull work to make these freely available.)

Idle speed can only be checked via the diagnostic hardware for your Rivale. It may be as simple as having the ECU updated.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentservice703 View Post
First, I would like to commend you for being considerate of your neighbors. It is unfortunate that your bike is so loud.

On the subject of your hard starts from cold there are a few things to consider.

Is the exhaust system a full system, or just a slip-on with the catalytic converter intact?

If the bike has not be tuned to the exhaust that will compound cold start issues.

The ECU controls cold starting and should compensate for temperature by adding fuel and increasing idle. If your system has not been tuned or updated since new, then there is a need to have the ECU updated.

Other things that cause issues include, as you suspect, degraded rubber in the intake system and vacuum lines leading to the throttle body synch ports. Ensure the caps are on those lines.

Faulty plugs can have an effect and lead to hard starts. I would replace those with NGK Iridium plugs.

Finally, I would pull the fuel tank and service the fuel filter and internal tank fuel lines replacing those lines with quality J30 R10 immersible hose and replace the fuel filter.

If you don't have your bike's manuals, they are available here: Team Double 3 Racing | MV Agusta (Give Donsy a virtual hug next time you see him on here for doing the bull work to make these freely available.)

Idle speed can only be checked via the diagnostic hardware for your Rivale. It may be as simple as having the ECU updated.
Thank you for your valuable input silentservice703!!

The exhaust is not full, just a slip on. I assume the bike hasn't been tuned to the exhaust as we don't have bike tuners and dealerships here. I have been informed that there is a diagnostics machine which is compatible with MV Agustas (Just need the adapter cable) in a city 622km / 386miles away.. That's a tad far for a trip to get my ECU updated however I do plan on making the ride some time in the near future once I have enough free time on my hands! The diagnostics machine belongs to BOSCH which is not an authorized MV dealer either, I am assuming we won't be able to update the ECU without a dealer's authority?

We will be sure to look into the intake system, vacuum lines and caps. I'm not sure what plugs the bike is running right now but I have already ordered a set of 6 x NGK Iridium plugs from an authorized dealer so the extra 3 can be kept as spares. Regarding the fuel tank I forgot to mention that we had serviced the filter previously as well. I will look into those J30 R10 hoses as well as a new filter.

Wow thanks for the link! I will be sure to keep an eye out for Donsy to give him that virtual hug!

I guess we will go over everything that could lead to the idle issues one by one. If all fails then I have an excuse to apply for leave to go get my ECU updated 600kms away (if updating is possible without dealership authority) Thank you once again! I will be sure to provide feedback as we go about it!

- 98 Honda Hornet 250 [Sold]
- 07 Suzuki GSX-R 600 [Sold]
- 03 KTM 200SX 2T [Sold]
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 09:35 AM
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It occurs to me that the hoses in your tank aren't as fragile as the early models. Your hoses should be a plastic material that is less susceptible to failure.

As far as the ECU update, there will be a licensing issue.
@esq'z me: could you chime in here?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentservice703 View Post
It occurs to me that the hoses in your tank aren't as fragile as the early models. Your hoses should be a plastic material that is less susceptible to failure.

As far as the ECU update, there will be a licensing issue.
@esq'z me: could you chime in here?

Only an authorized dealer will have the password to access the MV Factory site to update an ECU. You may be able to get to basic diagnostics, but maps are a proprietary thing. It has a great deal to do with emissions regulations.

On the other hand, if you have a someone who can remap ECUs ...... ECU Studio etc. They v=can just make a custom map.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 02:13 AM
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It's probably also worthwhile to check that the throttle body air bypass screws are all open and set the same.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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Alright so we got around to work on the bike last week. We replaced the plugs to NGK Iridiums and it is responding a little better but the cold start idling problem is still present, we also found that the breather hose to the crankcase has deteriorated (it is cracked and leaks) I lack mechanical knowledge so I'm not too sure what the function of the breather hose is but my mechanic told me that the breather hose wouldn't effect the idle like such LOL any inputs regarding this? I will still replace the hose since it isn't performing the task it is designed and required to..

We are going to check the valve clearances today as well as replacing the breather hose. I recall in the beginning of ownership it had a much more stable idle on cold starts where I could still ride the bike without having to slip the clutch on high rpms to keep the engine running and it wouldn't die on cold starts. The journey continues..

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 07:54 AM
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Hard cold starting can be a symptom of valve tolerance issues. That is not a bad thing to do at this point. The drain hose is just that, it drains oil vapor that has condensed back to your engine.

As for the throttle body advise to set the bleed screw "the same", that requires a vacuum balance rig.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
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Update;
- Valve clearance sorted
- Plugs replaced
- Cracked breather hose replaced

We looked into everything mentioned above in this thread. Replaced what needed replacing and fixed what needed fixing.
However, the problem persisted.

UP UNTIL a friend of mine bit the bullet and purchased a basically brand new 2014 Rivale with just over 1,000kms on!! It was parked for a few years without being ridden. He let me test ride his Rivale and the throttle response difference compared to mine was NIGHT AND DAY!!!! Fortunately enough, we use the same mechanic to maintain our motorcycles.... Haha

This is where the good news begins!! My friend decided to go for a full flush of all fluids including the fuel tank. Our mechanic was then able to compare some sort of "spring mechanism by the return inside the tank" which he had been suspecting. I had absolutely zero knowledge of what he was talking about but I told him to go ahead with the work anyway. At this point I was already considering selling the bike off for cheap, I told him to do all it takes to make it respond like the other Rivale so my mechanic sat with the bike for 1 day. Called me and asked where I was, he was done with the work and wants to bring the bike to me. I asked him if the issue was still present and he said he won't tell me however I will know once he brings the bike and I get to test it.

Turns out, that "spring mechanism" was the culprit to my cold start/low rev range response/idle issues.
Got my friend to test ride my bike after the issue was cleared and he approved. He claimed that it responds exactly like his does

Thanks to all whom provided their feedback, opinions, knowledge and experience!!

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 07:23 AM
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Are you talking about the Fuel Pressure Regulator?

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