Oil Bath Coolant Path F3 675 - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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Oil Bath Coolant Path F3 675

Hello, All-

Iíve been lurking here since before I purchased my 2014 F3 675 new from Heinenís in Minnesota last August.

Itís an amazing bike and Iíve had a lot of fun learning about true sport bikes from it (turns out I love it).

Anyway, Iíve upped my membership and involvement here because Iím curious about a technical problem Iíve run into.

If I may:

Last Thursday, I was coming home from a day long ride along some of my favorite roads just north and east of Nashville.

About 7 hours and 250 miles in, we were done with the fun roads and had to hit the slab for the last leg back home.

We fueled up and headed west, with about 50 miles to go.

About 40 miles later, I looked down to check my speed, and saw that the temperature gauge was at the max level.

I pulled over immediately and, as I pulled the clutch in for the last few feet of coasting, the engine simply stopped running.

Which was worrisome, but I was happy to shut it off ASAP, I reckon.

My compadre and I looked over the bike for any signs of fluid leakage and found none, though the radiator overfill tank was dry.

I turned the key back over just to see if, maybe, the gauge had a quick fault and simply needed a reset, but, no, the thing was still pegged at the top of the scale.

I asked my buddy if my bike had puffed any smoke or leaked anything and he said absolutely not (I was in the lead the whole day and heís an attentive fellow).

We continued to look for further clues and found non; the bike was as dry and as clean as could be.

Having a moment of intuition, I opened the filler/dipstick and found where all my radiator fluid had disappeared to, the oil sump/pan.

Had the bike towed the few miles back home, wrote a note to Commonwealth Motors, who had done first service/software updates for me, and, generally, felt like the bike had lost a head gasket or the one between the jugs and the cases, but having lost no fluid to the outside word, or sent any steam from the exhaust, something wasnít adding up completely.

I heard back from Chad at Commonwealth who doubted that a head or other gasket was involved, but it was perhaps more likely the water pump.

At the time, that didnít make too much sense to me, but, after looking at the engine rebuild manual, it seems that the water pump actually lives inside the sump/pan and is also the oil pump.

Now, it starts to make a bit more sense to me, as the coolant tunnels itís way to the pump through a metal tube in the oil bath and then, I guess, goes up and over.

The tube itself is bolted to the bottom of the mill at one end and is fitted into the pump end with an o-ring to seal it up.

Anyway, I drained the resulting 4-5 quarts of mess the thickness of latex paint out of the engine, then loaded in 2+ quarts of Castrol and a bit of the stuff they use to clean out oil passages after an engine suffers a head gasket loss; I figured Iíd at least thumb the starter and put some oil up into the top end, just in case the engine wasnít too terribly damaged.

The thing started right up, to some surprise from me, so I let it come to standard temperature, shut it off, let it sit for an hour, then did that again.

Drained that fluid out, put fresh stuff in, brought it to temperature and now I wait for the time when I can take it down to The Duc Shop in Marietta.

Sorry for all the back story, but, Iíd like to know if anyone else has experienced this kind of thing and, if so, how it was rectified and, maybe even more importantly, how did it happen in the first place?

Thank you, in advance, to anyone that can help lend me some understanding!

Very Best Regards,

King Williams
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 12:57 PM
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Wow. Just WOW.

I took a gander at the manual for this bike and yes, the oil pump and coolant pump live in the oil sump and are driven by the same drive gear.

I suppose this is to keep the engine as narrow as possible; but, yikes there are multiple points where this failure could occur.

Hopefully your dealer is a good one.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Wow Indeed

To use a phrase I abhor, ďI know, Right?Ē...

I have a couple colleagues that also happen to build engines and, after telling them how the plumbing works down there, they respond with ďwait, let me get this straight...Ē, or ďhang on; what?Ē.

MV NA have let me know that I should take it to the Duc Shop in Marietta, GA, so there she shall go!

Because itís still under warranty and I donít know the extent of the damage, Iíve kept my grubby hands off the engine, save removing what I could of the oil/coolant cocktail and dropping new oil in.

Iím assuming that, at this point, the two systems are still open to each other, so Iím not 100% that Iím doing that much good, but I think that getting that other stuff out is at least the first step.

Best Regards,

King

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 02:45 PM
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Keep us posted...

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 02:46 PM
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Plenty of machines have places where oil and coolant live right next to each other. I know someone who put an oil cooler together wrong and immediately filled his duc with oil coolant chocolate milk shake!

In the hunt for light weight and high performance comes risk.

There is a drain hole for the coolant pump on the bottom of the pan. I think it is for any slight leak the coolant pump may have. Is that area dry?

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2018, 05:52 AM
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Why aren't you going back to Chad at Commonwealth? Just curios as he is a pretty damn good tech. So is Mark at the Ducshop. Just curios.

Anyway, good that you shut down and that the engine started and sounded good after fresh oil. Probably no damage at all inside since you acted so quickly. No oil pressure warning and no steam out the crankcase is also a good sign.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2018, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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My Milkshake

Quote:
Originally Posted by airjawed View Post
Plenty of machines have places where oil and coolant live right next to each other. I know someone who put an oil cooler together wrong and immediately filled his duc with oil coolant chocolate milk shake!

In the hunt for light weight and high performance comes risk.

There is a drain hole for the coolant pump on the bottom of the pan. I think it is for any slight leak the coolant pump may have. Is that area dry?
Thanks for the information (and I agree, yes, high performance needs can certainly dictate unorthodox/risky solutions); I believe I've found what you are speaking of and it is dry down there.

The whole bike was dry and clean, and I drained approx 5 qts of fluid from the sump, so I believe that it all stayed within the machine.

Also, what resulted was a little thicker, maybe like a mocha smoothie?

It looked Dee-Lish.

Thank you for the reply and the information, I really appreciate it!

Cheers and Best,

King

I know this switch is around here somewhere.. OUCH!

2014 MV Agusta F3 675, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale 910R, 2017 Ducati Supersport S, 2006 Ducati ST3, 2000 Harley-Davidson Heritage Softail
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2018, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esq'z me View Post
Why aren't you going back to Chad at Commonwealth? Just curios as he is a pretty damn good tech. So is Mark at the Ducshop. Just curios.

Anyway, good that you shut down and that the engine started and sounded good after fresh oil. Probably no damage at all inside since you acted so quickly. No oil pressure warning and no steam out the crankcase is also a good sign.
Chad is an excellent mechanic and I really like the shop there; he took care of my first service and hanging out there had the feel of a real bike shop-locals coming by to simply hang out and talk bikes, a great showroom full of Chad's work and the owner's collection of impeccable motorcycles, the works!

It felt like home and I've done a bit of business with them since them, always more than satisfactorily; I hold them in the highest regard.

I actually wrote to Chad first; he called me back and expressed reservation about being able to do warranty work with MV at this juncture, so I contacted Jay at MV NA (Answered the phone on a Friday late afternoon, which was great) and, after emailing them my VIN number, they recommended The DucShop.

I'll give them a call today to see when will be the best time to trailer it down and will go from there.

I don't know how long the mill was spinning while overheated; the bike never made a sound, never lost power or gave any indication of a problem until I looked down and saw the temperature gauge; maybe I actually caught it in time to prevent any lasting damage, but that doesn't tend to be my luck!

Starting, not puffing smoke or leaking any liquids, though, gives me hope that it will be a (relatively) simple fix.

I'll update as I learn more about what caused the failure and how it was remedied.

Thanks, everyone, for the responses, I honestly appreciate it!

Best,

King

I know this switch is around here somewhere.. OUCH!

2014 MV Agusta F3 675, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale 910R, 2017 Ducati Supersport S, 2006 Ducati ST3, 2000 Harley-Davidson Heritage Softail
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-11-2018, 05:46 PM
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I reached out to a few MV dealers before my first service and was met with hesitation from Commonwealth as well. So, like you, I asked MV USA for a recommendation and they said D&D Cycles in Pensacola, FL. Great place!! I think some dealerships are trying to break off of the MV name and will only do bikes they have sold. I'm in Memphis and was hoping that Atlanta or Kentucky was an option but if you ever make it to Pensacola have a look at the real garage in the back. They love motorcycles to say the least.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Update

Hello, All-

Hereís a quick update on my F3.

I ferried the bike down to The Ducshop at the beginning of June.

What a cool place, and it was great meeting Mark.

He gave me a call about 8-10 days later to let me know that it was not a problem with the coolant fittings in the sump coming lose, but, much worse.

Apparently (and Iím paraphrasing from a memory a few weeks old), the cause of the issue was that the clutch basket had shed some bits about 1Ē square and that they had migrated up into the area of the crank, creating havoc and punching a hole somewhere that allowed the coolant to invade the sump.

Thus, as it was deemed to be an error of either parts or manufacture, Iím receiving a new 2018 mill for the F3.

Itís been about three weeks since we spoke, so I imagine that things are progressing, but I donít know, yet, exactly how far along she is.

I figured Iíd call after a month and see if there was news to report; thatíll be in another week or so.

Iíll send updates soon, as I learn more.

Thanks, everyone!

Best Regards,

King Williams

I know this switch is around here somewhere.. OUCH!

2014 MV Agusta F3 675, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale 910R, 2017 Ducati Supersport S, 2006 Ducati ST3, 2000 Harley-Davidson Heritage Softail
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