front Sprocket Nut - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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front Sprocket Nut

Is it just me or has anybody else had trouble with the tightness of Nuts.
First it was my rear wheel and today i wanted to change my front sprocket for 1 with a tooth less.
tried with a good 2 foot wrench and then Impact gun.
Still wont shift.
and yes ive released bent over tab on washer.

F3 800 RC, Aprilia V4 Tuono,Yam RD400F
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 02:49 PM
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Interesting, Ive just watched a video of an Aprilia engine strip down, only done 3000Kms so fresh from the factory so to speak, I think a cam bearing bolt came loose and went through the casing
Anyway the bloke in the video checked most of the critical bolts for their torque supposedly set at the factory and the results are quite amazing, literally all over the shop, and some big degrees of difference
So, I suppose finding fasteners too tight/loose is not a big surprise any bike
Good luck with getting it free
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 07:10 PM
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Some heat? I need to change sprockets soon so let us know what works...
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 07:36 PM
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I'd love to know how someone checks a bolt or nut torque after it's been tightened.
Be carefull with heat, don't use too much, there's oil seals on that shaft.
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 12:36 AM
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Theres always a way, just need to look...

Once a torque specification is determined, the joint should be audited to verify the product has been fastened to the specified torque. It is important to audit the joint for accuracy and to ensure your product's quality, safety and reliability isn't compromised. The failure of a three-cent fastener that isn't properly tightened can lead to catastrophic or latent failures. Fasteners that are insufficiently torqued can vibrate loose and excessive torque can strip threaded fasteners. It is important for many companies to ensure that proper torque is being applied and maintains gauge requirements associated with the ISO 9001 Quality Standard.

To perform this test, there are three common methods that have been established to provide an accurate reference to the applied torque.

1) First Movement Test - Once the fastener has been tightened, employ the use of torque measuring tool. Mark the tightened fastener and surrounding application. In the tightening direction, begin to slowly apply force to the tool until the first movement in the fastener is noted. The reading recorded is a good indication of the original torque applied to the joint. This is the best way to determine residual torque.

2) Loosening Test - This is a similar process to the first movement test described above, except instead of the tightening the fastener, the torque is applied in the direction that loosens the fastener. At the point the fastener breaks loose, the torque reading is recorded. The torque value to loosen the fastener is the approximate torque that was applied to the joint.

3) Marking Test - Once the fastener tightened, mark clearly the surface of the fastener, nut or bolt and continuing the mark onto the surface being clamped for reference. This time loosen the fastener and retighten until the marks on both application and fastener are aligned. The torque required to return the fastener to its original location is the reference to the original torque applied to the fastener.

What is Residual Torque? It is the amount of tension that remains in a joint after fastening a threaded fastener.

Many users may want to verify residual torque. By checking the torque after assembly, you not only verify adequate torque was delivered to the fastener, but may also detect missed or loose fasteners, or joint relaxation. But since the application is already seated and friction during rundown is different than the friction in a static joint, the torque reading will vary from those in the tool crib and from the dynamic values. These differences will need to be accounted for when engineering a residual torque specification.
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 12:53 AM
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I agree to some point, in a controlled or specific application, but.....
I'd like to see where you got that info from Graham, because I think the method would be hugely flowed under certain condition.
There is no near accurate way to see how tight a nut of bolt was torqued up once loctite has been applied, never mind the metal surfaces seezing together.
There are just so many factors in play that I find that guys making a claim with a figure attached is guessing.

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsy View Post
I agree to some point, in a controlled or specific application, but.....
I'd like to see where you got that info from Graham, because I think the method would be hugely flowed under certain condition.
There is no near accurate way to see how tight a nut of bolt was torqued up once loctite has been applied, never mind the metal surfaces seezing together.
There are just so many factors in play that I find that guys making a claim with a figure attached is guessing.
Agree.
The tightening action results in the fastener being tightened to a dynamic torque figure

When undoing a fastener you are overcoming static torque and as Donsy said there are a whole range of factors at play.

Stretch in tbe bolt...friction of the threads and the bolt head against the component/ washer

Corrosion..lubrication...locking compound..

I wouldnt personally test for torque by measuring the static torque to the point the fastener moves in a tightening direction.

Good way of stripping the threads..

The only sensible way for your average Joe to ensure the torque is correct is to loosen the fastener and then reapply dynamic torque.

Joe

Last edited by gotojoe; 01-08-2017 at 05:49 AM.
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsy View Post
I'd love to know how someone checks a bolt or nut torque after it's been tightened.
Be carefull with heat, don't use too much, there's oil seals on that shaft.
Yes Donsy,totally agree with you there.Heat is my last resort
and would prefer not to use

F3 800 RC, Aprilia V4 Tuono,Yam RD400F
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by marksim View Post
Is it just me or has anybody else had trouble with the tightness of Nuts.
First it was my rear wheel and today i wanted to change my front sprocket for 1 with a tooth less.
tried with a good 2 foot wrench and then Impact gun.
Still wont shift.
and yes ive released bent over tab on washer.
It is not a reverse thread is it? I don't think it is. How are your holding the sprocket to keep it from turning? Use the chain looped around the sprocket with the other end secured through the swingarm.

Last edited by number2; 01-08-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gotojoe View Post
Agree.
The tightening action results in the fastener being tightened to a dynamic torque figure

When undoing a fastener you are overcoming static torque and as Donsy said there are a whole range of factors at play.

Stretch in tbe bolt...friction of the threads and the bolt head against the component/ washer

Corrosion..lubrication...locking compound..

I wouldnt personally test for torque by measuring the static torque to the point the fastener moves in a tightening direction.

Good way of stripping the threads..

The only sensible way for your average Joe to ensure the torque is correct is to loosen the fastener and then reapply dynamic torque.

Joe

I think you missed the point, the mechanic in the video was demonstrating that a range of fasteners in the motor were completely out of the manufactures stated torque range, he was using a basic method to show this. He was not demonstrating an approved process for accurately checking the fasteners torque
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