F3 675 / 800 Head Failure - There is hope! - Page 3 - MVAgusta.net
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post #21 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zxrjohn14 View Post
My f3 800 had the head of the valve snap off on the middle cylinder inlet.
Race/track bike only and went on deceleration.
It destroyed the head and piston!
Thanks for that.

Was it the exhaust or the intake valve?

Do you have some temperature intel for that run?
Has your bike seen numerous high temp situations?

Yes, when it lets go, it does significant damage along the way.

Was it covered under warranty or did you have to repair it yourself?
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post #22 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 03:49 PM
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Was it the exhaust or the intake valve? Intake (inlet)

Do you have some temperature intel for that run? Everything was normal
Has your bike seen numerous high temp situations? No problems until it let go

Yes, when it lets go, it does significant damage along the way. You ain't kidding!

Was it covered under warranty or did you have to repair it yourself? Fixed it myself
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post #23 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zxrjohn14 View Post
Was it the exhaust or the intake valve? Intake (inlet)

Do you have some temperature intel for that run? Everything was normal
Has your bike seen numerous high temp situations? No problems until it let go

Yes, when it lets go, it does significant damage along the way. You ain't kidding!

Was it covered under warranty or did you have to repair it yourself? Fixed it myself
Your replies suck.........lol.
Only because it's a mark against high center cylinder temps being a root cause. Having said that, it's still the middle cylinder so its good to keep track and see which cylinder provides the highest likelyhood of failure.

I guess being in the UK, you wouldn't see the same level of temps we can see here in the USA. We are out of Las Vegas. The second to last time we ran the bike before the valve failure was at a track called Chuckwalla. The temps that day were around 110-115F. Needless to say we cut the day short due to the machine running high in the green.

What was the final dollar amount before you were finished repairing this?
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post #24 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ZAGRacing View Post
I would also like to add a general question for better understanding.

What is the highest temp readout you guys have all been witnessing on the dash in bars? This is for anyone who rides a F3 675 or 800, not specifically racers or track day guys.

Would like to get a handle on the heat cycles these engines see.
If you had a high temp reading on the dash or a warning at any point while riding, let us know.

And if you could provide that with the temp outside that day, it would be even more helpful. Approximately on course.
I've run at track and canyons in 110 degree low humidity and the temp is always within allowable range. The fan always would come on when the bike is sitting for a moment and the temp would start to drop a couple degrees. I ran distilled water and wetter water. My bike also as you described had a loss of power which I took to be tracation control at the time but I think it was valve related. In my video you can hear a flutter right before failure.

Last edited by 71154; 12-28-2016 at 05:25 PM.
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post #25 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 05:33 AM
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I was in Aragon dark in September when an 800 dropped number 2 valve. All I know it was about 22 degrees and the bike had about 7k track miles. Not a lot of info I know but it shows number 2 valve again.
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post #26 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 05:34 AM
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Back in September
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post #27 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 08:09 AM
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MV F3 675 dropping a valve at redstar in South Africa. Average temps are in the in excess of 30 degrees C in summer (average around 32/33) (you can see its summer since the grass is green, always brown in winter/early spring and there are thunderstorms in the background)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p-xFHYFsPs

Try contact Dewald de Wet on youtube for more info

Last edited by PTsalas; 12-29-2016 at 08:12 AM.
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post #28 of 241 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 08:10 AM
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MV dropping a valve in Mugello , I think it's in August which is their summer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs2PZOjoaVc
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post #29 of 241 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 01:45 PM
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Bump, any update on this? Zag? Was your failure similar to the vids?
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post #30 of 241 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Bump, any update on this? Zag? Was your failure similar to the vids?
I guess I could give hourly updates but rest assured the work is going on daily. As a matter of fact, our heads and cylinders begin the journey tomorrow.

Our cylinder banks were damaged so the nikasil plating has to be removed first, the cylinder damage repaired and then the plating restored. That gets us to a point where we can order up the remaining parts we need to rebuild the bottom ends of both motors.

Since we found another stock head, we only have one head that needs to be repaired. The process there is the combustion area of a undamaged cylinder needs to be 3D scanned. Then they weld up all the damage to the bad combustion area (in our case, cylinder 2) and then using the 3D scan, CNC that combustion area back to its original form.

From that point we start working with our combined intelligence to start making some changes to the design to improve reliability. It sucks because it would be nice if the work was going into improving the heads performance but at this time, we can't go there due to the nature of what it is we are trying to achieve. At a point a little later down the road, we will work a full race head design that has all the magic in it but for now, we want it to run for a long time. This is what I am sure you are all looking for as well.

So we have collected enough information to identify a few critical areas of the design where the improvements can be made. The combination of knowledge is pretty cool. We have us (ZAG Racing) as a race team that's doing the investigations in the community and also keeping costs and such under control (hey, its no good if it costs a fortune to do right?). We have an extremely talented and knowledgeable racing mechanic / crewchief / engine builder / general ringer, we have the assistance of a high powered drag bike engine building facility who are used to working on much more stressed engines than this and we have a guy who literally knows every race team in Europe and talks with many on a regular basis. He also has access to a long list of very desireable racing parts.

As we move backwards from the repairs of the heads, we will start to test various parts for durability. I know what you are thinking and yes, we may lose a few motors in the process but I think we have the talent and to some degree, the parts supplies to make this a process that won't destroy us all financially. If we run into too many issues, there is always one of those fundraiser sites.......lol. J/K

Right now, at this moment, we have a couple of things that we believe will really help. Won't mention anything until we have had the chance to do the testing and stand behind those changes. Everything has to be documented and validated. And the really cool part is of the three things we are pretty sure of, each one came from a different source within the group. I love it when all the brains work together.

Sorry I don't have a eureka moment for you all yet but this type of work is slow and methodical. No one in this group wants to have their contribution fail so it's going to take some more time.

Feel free to join us over on our fanpage to keep a closer eye on what is happening. I have been coming here quite frequently but if you want the most uptodate info as we move forward, it will show up there. Or stay here and it will come a little later.

https://www.facebook.com/ZAGRacing/


To be absolutely clear to you guys, we love these motorcycles. They are fast, sound amazing, have amazing chassis' and possess the cool factor like no other. MV didn't build the bike to fail and these problems surfaced further down the road. Anyone could easily turn their backs on the brand and machine and move on. My guess, is that if you are here reading this, that's not your intention and like us, you are going to fight this out until the bitter end.

Here is a frightening image that shows you all why we are so dead serious to figure this out.

Should you be afraid?
Yup - for now
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