F3 675 / 800 Head Failure - There is hope! - Page 16 - MVAgusta.net
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post #151 of 241 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 09:20 AM
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Ask around your area for a good machinist/ head shop. A good shop will have a flow bench, be able to cut their own springs and many years of experience. There is a proper procedure for valve guides so they need to know what they are doing. While your head is being rebuilt have them port and polish the exhaust ports and just port out the intake side. You could bring your headers too so they match the exhaust ports to headers. Will give you a nice increase in power and help engine pump air in and out more efficiently. Might be tricky finding the valve guides needed for the F3. From what I read MV doesn't sell them and only comes with new head. It can get pricey to do a head rebuild so make sure you find the best possible shop to do it.
Also as the originator of this thread said to me you should have the seats replaced too and have longer guides installed. The bronze seats will provide softer landing for the valves and the longer guides provide more support for the valves.
I don't think you are in the States but if you are I can recommend a former MV employee to do it for you. If worse comes to worst and you want to ship your head to the States let me know...

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My opinion is if you have a 2012-13 f3 is to change the valve springs as these were updated in 14, also this winter I'm upgrading the the valve guides.

I have recently heard from a guy in greece who suffered a spring failure.
What would you change the valve springs to? Brand? Link?

Also define an upgrade? What is the standard valve guides and what would consist of as an upgrade? I understand that a proper engineering shop is required to remove the valve guides from the head?

Last edited by Angelo-MV; 11-22-2017 at 09:31 AM.
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post #152 of 241 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 11:30 AM
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I have an early 2012 F3 675, it has been on track now for nearly 2 years and as you can imagine the engine is getting worked harder than on the street.

After reading most of these posts, my mind set is just to keep running it until something breaks, maybe not the best preventive maintenance but its something that may not need to be preventive, hopefully not in my case.

I'll let you know when it goes Bang!!!


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post #153 of 241 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTsalas View Post
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My opinion is if you have a 2012-13 f3 is to change the valve springs as these were updated in 14, also this winter I'm upgrading the the valve guides.

I have recently heard from a guy in greece who suffered a spring failure.
What would you change the valve springs to? Brand? Link?

Also define an upgrade? What is the standard valve guides and what would consist of as an upgrade? I understand that a proper engineering shop is required to remove the valve guides from the head?
I'm going to upgrade the guides to colsibro, not sure of existing material but my engineer won't use any other materials on TI valves.

In 2014 MV started using different valve springs to the 2012-13 again not sure the difference but I have been running STD 14 springs all year with engine speed up to 15750 for approx 2000miles, no issues to date.
So they are just STD MV valve springs but an improvement over the 12-13 springs.
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post #154 of 241 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Angelo-MV View Post
Ask around your area for a good machinist/ head shop. A good shop will have a flow bench, be able to cut their own springs and many years of experience. There is a proper procedure for valve guides so they need to know what they are doing. While your head is being rebuilt have them port and polish the exhaust ports and just port out the intake side. You could bring your headers too so they match the exhaust ports to headers. Will give you a nice increase in power and help engine pump air in and out more efficiently. Might be tricky finding the valve guides needed for the F3. From what I read MV doesn't sell them and only comes with new head. It can get pricey to do a head rebuild so make sure you find the best possible shop to do it.
Also as the originator of this thread said to me you should have the seats replaced too and have longer guides installed. The bronze seats will provide softer landing for the valves and the longer guides provide more support for the valves.
I don't think you are in the States but if you are I can recommend a former MV employee to do it for you. If worse comes to worst and you want to ship your head to the States let me know...
The question still remains, how would you know if those new valve guides are an upgrade? They might be different, but how do you know if it will improve the situation or contribute to it?

Im on the fence about "fixing" the head now or fixing it later if it drops a valve. It might cost a little more later as I will be forced to replace a piston or two, re-nikasil the bores and couple of valves, but the effort will be about the same. Might be worth just taking my chances and running to failure.
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post #155 of 241 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 05:23 PM
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I guess you will never know for sure. It seems like a crap shoot with these engines. I never tracked my bike or beat the shit out of it but still blew a valve. I have had many spirited rides but never passed redline or had engine over heat. Others have tracked their bikes and stressed engine a lot more than I ever did with no issues.
If you are prepared to rebuild head now then I would wait to see if it blows. Don't even think about it....just ride and have fun. When it blows you will know...
At this point I am not worried about the replacement engine. It is fresh out of factory with the latest updated head. Giving MV the benefit of doubt that they realized the issues and have corrected them. Maybe they should come up with a solution for people who drop valves when bike is out of warranty.
I would hate to have an Oro or Ago model only to have a valve drop one day. I have seen a couple of Oros for sale but resisted buying one because of this issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTsalas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo-MV View Post
Ask around your area for a good machinist/ head shop. A good shop will have a flow bench, be able to cut their own springs and many years of experience. There is a proper procedure for valve guides so they need to know what they are doing. While your head is being rebuilt have them port and polish the exhaust ports and just port out the intake side. You could bring your headers too so they match the exhaust ports to headers. Will give you a nice increase in power and help engine pump air in and out more efficiently. Might be tricky finding the valve guides needed for the F3. From what I read MV doesn't sell them and only comes with new head. It can get pricey to do a head rebuild so make sure you find the best possible shop to do it.
Also as the originator of this thread said to me you should have the seats replaced too and have longer guides installed. The bronze seats will provide softer landing for the valves and the longer guides provide more support for the valves.
I don't think you are in the States but if you are I can recommend a former MV employee to do it for you. If worse comes to worst and you want to ship your head to the States let me know...
The question still remains, how would you know if those new valve guides are an upgrade? They might be different, but how do you know if it will improve the situation or contribute to it?

Im on the fence about "fixing" the head now or fixing it later if it drops a valve. It might cost a little more later as I will be forced to replace a piston or two, re-nikasil the bores and couple of valves, but the effort will be about the same. Might be worth just taking my chances and running to failure.
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Last edited by Angelo-MV; 11-22-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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post #156 of 241 (permalink) Old 11-23-2017, 09:19 AM
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[quote=Angelo-MV;2385698] < snip > I would wait to see if it blows. Don't even think about it....just ride and have fun. When it blows you will know... < snip >


Spoken like a person who has never had to pay for a completeengine rebuild. Believe me, itís cheaper and easier to do the head now ratherthan wait until there is a catastrophic engine failure.


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Originally Posted by Angelo-MV View Post
< snip > Maybe they should come up with a solution for people who drop valves when bike is out of warranty.
No maybe about it!


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I would hate to have an Oro or Ago model only to have a valve drop one day. < snip >
It hits us with standard F3's just as hard mate! If I ride my F3 I'm like a granny keeping it under 10,000 rpm's. I can barely afford the insurance right now. No way I can pay for an engine rebuild. Plus with the situation here in Canada right now dealers can't give away their NOS stock. That makes used MV's near impossible to sell.

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post #157 of 241 (permalink) Old 11-23-2017, 03:08 PM
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I did not have to pay for a complete engine rebuild but I did have to wait 3 months for replacement engine to get to USA from Italy and miss the best part of the riding season. Almost as bad as paying for it myself but then it would have been completed a lot faster.
Like you, I didn't ride my bike that hard but still blew a valve. I have the the latest MV F3 engine now with the most up to date head design but still have the thought of a valve going on me again but I am giving MV the benefit of the doubt that issue is finally resolved.
From my understanding the most important part of the F3 head rebuild are the valve guides and it is not something so easy to get done. The guides need to be custom made and installed the proper way. I would only trust a former MV USA employee for the valve guides and maybe another shop I know. So the price of a head rebuild may not justify having the head rebuilt now instead of rebuilding the whole engine since if the valve guides are not done properly you may have the same issue that some F3 engines are having now.
The key is to find the right person to do it and have trust in them that they know what they are doing.

[QUOTE=Stephen W.;2386082]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo-MV View Post
< snip > I would wait to see if it blows. Don't even think about it....just ride and have fun. When it blows you will know... < snip >


Spoken like a person who has never had to pay for a completeengine rebuild. Believe me, itís cheaper and easier to do the head now ratherthan wait until there is a catastrophic engine failure. [IMG class=inlineimg]http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/images/MVagusta_net_2016/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png[/IMG]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo-MV View Post
< snip > Maybe they should come up with a solution for people who drop valves when bike is out of warranty.
No maybe about it! [IMG class=inlineimg]http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/images/MVagusta_net_2016/smilies/tango_face_plain.png[/IMG]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo-MV View Post
I would hate to have an Oro or Ago model only to have a valve drop one day. < snip >
It hits us with standard F3's just as hard mate! If I ride my F3 I'm like a granny keeping it under 10,000 rpm's. I can barely afford the insurance right now. No way I can pay for an engine rebuild. Plus with the situation here in Canada right now dealers can't give away their NOS stock. That makes used MV's near impossible to sell. [IMG class=inlineimg]http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/images/MVagusta_net_2016/smilies/tango_face_crying.png[/IMG]
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post #158 of 241 (permalink) Old 02-04-2018, 11:33 AM
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Whats the latest gents?
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post #159 of 241 (permalink) Old 02-04-2018, 04:16 PM
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Whats the latest gents?
Dont jinx it man!

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post #160 of 241 (permalink) Old 02-10-2018, 02:32 AM
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Just upped the limiter to 16000rpm, fingers crossed!!!
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