Roadracing World 1000cc test - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-11-2007, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Roadracing World 1000cc test

So the MV F41000R came in last in the recent Roadracing World comparison. And the Ducati 1098 came in second to last. Did anyone else read it?

Now, normally you'd see me go off on a tirade about how idiot journalists don't know how to ride or set up a bike, and I could ride faster than them on my MV 750 (which is often the case), but not this time. I can't beat any of those guys, no way! This isn't your average group of journalists.

I think they were pretty fair. Their conclusions were relatively sound, although I have a few reservations which I'll note later.

The MV went the fastest, sure, but only 1 rider set fastest time on it. The others couldn't get along with it. That's a valid strike against. But ironically, the setup it had probably would have allowed other guys to go faster if they tweaked it a little, since it had a more track oriented setup. That's my main beef.

The Ducati suffered from what I already knew about Ducatis with Ohlins suspension, it's not even nearly set up correctly from the factory. I'm pretty sure all Ducatis that have come stock with Ohlins have springs that are way too light. What good is that? You can't tune around springs that are way off. I also have a theory that Ducati is shipping the 1098 purposely with a very high rear ride hight to differentiate it with the very "flat" looking 999. In the latest Motorcyclist, Doug Polen had to drastically reduce rear ride height to go faster on the 1098. That's kind of another strike against Ducati, but again, my beef with this test is that it seemed like they didn't tweak it to try to improve it.

So the Japanese rule again. And for the intended audience, can you blame them? What club racer is going to run out and buy an MV to club race on, based on this review? It takes a funny stand, it's not easy to get the wheels off, etc. I suppose it's possible to go out and race it, but you gotta have significantly more money to start with, and you probably will have to wait a lot longer for parts. With the Japanese stuff, it's cheap and available, and it really doesn't give up anything on the track. Makes sense doesn't it?

I would be happier as a reader if they spent a few hours tweaking each bike to rid it of the obvious flaws that affects all riders. Bringing down the rear on the Ducati would have probably helped a lot, for instance. Maybe adjusting damping a little on the other bikes would have helped. I did see that they tried to adjust geometry to make up for tire size differences. Why stop there? After all, this is a racing publication. If you're a racer, you tweak the suspension. Period. You have to. Why not do it in this test?

I think the MV getting the fastest lap makes up for it's last place. It's street cred galore. And it also goes to show how good modern bikes are. They are all really, really damn good and all can win races in the hands of the right rider (and they do).

'01 F4S
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 12:55 AM
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Andy - the MV had the 2nd fastest best lap across ALL the riders. It was 2nd to the R1. Personally, I thought RRW was a bit harsh on the MV. This magazine is all about the stopwatch, and the MV came out on top. But then the riders HAMMERED it in the subjective sections.

As for "racer" friendly, IMHO the MV is probably closer to that than some of the other bikes. Yeah, you can get a Gixer, but you'll still need to dump $8k into it to get it to the level the MV starts at.

To me, they were looking for some way to diminish the significance of the lap times from the MV. It shoots a big hole in their testing. Here they all are, panning this bike - too hard, too heavy, nasty motor, crappy tranny (try new oil!) - and then they go out and ride it, and it's faster than almost all the other bikes.

So much for their "subjective" stuff...

Alex

PS - I still like the mag, and will continue to devour it when it hits my mailbox. I'll just be a little more skeptical when I read their comments.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 01:18 AM
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Every one I know would buy an MV hands down if they could afford it,you guys probably get the same reaction from friends and people on the street.
Point is people love these bikes whether they are the fastest or not.
I decided to buy an MV without knowing its credentials,I didnt even know they had this much power.
Why didnt I buy an R1 or Gixer...hell do I even have to justify it.
Keep your chin up brother!

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acruhl
And it also goes to show how good modern bikes are. They are all really, really damn good and all can win races in the hands of the right rider (and they do).
True....though the MV looks, sounds and feels better while doing it.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acruhl
So the MV F41000R came in last in the recent Roadracing World comparison. And the Ducati 1098 came in second to last. Did anyone else read it?

Now, normally you'd see me go off on a tirade about how idiot journalists don't know how to ride or set up a bike, and I could ride faster than them on my MV 750 (which is often the case), but not this time. I can't beat any of those guys, no way! This isn't your average group of journalists.

I think they were pretty fair. Their conclusions were relatively sound, although I have a few reservations which I'll note later.

The MV went the fastest, sure, but only 1 rider set fastest time on it. The others couldn't get along with it. That's a valid strike against. But ironically, the setup it had probably would have allowed other guys to go faster if they tweaked it a little, since it had a more track oriented setup. That's my main beef.

The Ducati suffered from what I already knew about Ducatis with Ohlins suspension, it's not even nearly set up correctly from the factory. I'm pretty sure all Ducatis that have come stock with Ohlins have springs that are way too light. What good is that? You can't tune around springs that are way off. I also have a theory that Ducati is shipping the 1098 purposely with a very high rear ride hight to differentiate it with the very "flat" looking 999. In the latest Motorcyclist, Doug Polen had to drastically reduce rear ride height to go faster on the 1098. That's kind of another strike against Ducati, but again, my beef with this test is that it seemed like they didn't tweak it to try to improve it.

So the Japanese rule again. And for the intended audience, can you blame them? What club racer is going to run out and buy an MV to club race on, based on this review? It takes a funny stand, it's not easy to get the wheels off, etc. I suppose it's possible to go out and race it, but you gotta have significantly more money to start with, and you probably will have to wait a lot longer for parts. With the Japanese stuff, it's cheap and available, and it really doesn't give up anything on the track. Makes sense doesn't it?

I would be happier as a reader if they spent a few hours tweaking each bike to rid it of the obvious flaws that affects all riders. Bringing down the rear on the Ducati would have probably helped a lot, for instance. Maybe adjusting damping a little on the other bikes would have helped. I did see that they tried to adjust geometry to make up for tire size differences. Why stop there? After all, this is a racing publication. If you're a racer, you tweak the suspension. Period. You have to. Why not do it in this test?

I think the MV getting the fastest lap makes up for it's last place. It's street cred galore. And it also goes to show how good modern bikes are. They are all really, really damn good and all can win races in the hands of the right rider (and they do).
The 312 just won Masterbike in Europe....at least some journos think it's ok.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocemoto
The 312 just won Masterbike in Europe....at least some journos think it's ok.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that. They must be doing some kind of setup work. If I remember correct, I think they do? Don't they have a team of mechanics for each bike trying to tune it the best they can, within some given set of rules? That makes sense to me, this is what people will actually be doing with their bikes.

Another small detail I missed was that everyone in the RRW article said the MV's power was too abrupt. And I also remember someone that had an R on the dyno early on said that it was like 10 or 15 horsepower down at some point in the midrange to the S? Holy cow, no wonder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by altoon
Andy - the MV had the 2nd fastest best lap across ALL the riders. It was 2nd to the R1. Personally, I thought RRW was a bit harsh on the MV. This magazine is all about the stopwatch, and the MV came out on top. But then the riders HAMMERED it in the subjective sections.
I missed that among the multitudes of data in that article. See, that makes me even more skeptical of the results now.

You know, in another part of that magazine, the MV won the Superstock category of a Wera Endurance race. It was the 5150 team, they have posted here before. It came in second overall to Vesrah, which is no small feat. Kinda makes you wonder why they rate it so low as a race bike..

But then again, their readers have already made up their minds on the MV, and most likely won't be club racing it. But it would be cool to see wouldn't it?

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 08:01 AM
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I think they had a first ride for the 312 in that issue as well. Wonder if they actually flew over or repackaged someone else's review. The issue hasn't shown up on my doorstep yet.

Wasn't it Ulrich who produced the fastest lap on the MV? Ulrich for crying out loud! The "slowest" guy there! It HAS to be the bike They're all pretty much Suzuki fanboys anyway.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 08:30 AM
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did anyone here buy an MV.... because it won some COMPARO?
why any of us continue to care about these articles is FAR BEYOND me

for the money.....
a Suzuki K7 or Yamaha R1 is a MUCH BETTER BIKE...

but......
does that really matter to ANY OF YOU?

if it did....
you wouldn't have bought your MV.... right?



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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVness
I think they had a first ride for the 312 in that issue as well. Wonder if they actually flew over or repackaged someone else's review. The issue hasn't shown up on my doorstep yet.

Wasn't it Ulrich who produced the fastest lap on the MV? Ulrich for crying out loud! The "slowest" guy there! It HAS to be the bike They're all pretty much Suzuki fanboys anyway.
It was Ulrich, and if you look close he's currently the one posting the best results in AMA competition. I doubt he could beat Toye in a straight fight at Willow Springs, but he's doing pretty well for himself.

Also note that the reason they think he went fastest on that bike is because the setup of it best matched his stature (tall, relatively heavy although I'd like to have his problem). Which seems to confirm that they didn't do much, if any, setup work. I disagree with that decision, but there you go.

Suzuki fans, yes. Fanboys? I don't think so. They've had a lot of articles which were harsh criticism of Suzukis in that magazine. The 2007 GSX-R 1000 intro ride wasn't necessarily glowing. And don't look now, but they may have to run another one on the 1000, they are not as reliable as they should be.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spalding12
did anyone here buy an MV.... because it won some COMPARO?
why any of us continue to care about these articles is FAR BEYOND me

for the money.....
a Suzuki K7 or Yamaha R1 is a MUCH BETTER BIKE...

but......
does that really matter to ANY OF YOU?

if it did....
you wouldn't have bought your MV.... right?
I don't think anyone disagrees Greg.

I think what this is about is the mis-conception of the bike by the press. This is then propagated to the general motorcycling public, of which many don't know any better than to believe what the magazines tell them. And I know for a fact you've run across people that have an opinion that matches the magazines, who have never ridden an MV, right?

Kinda sucks in that regard.

'01 F4S
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