Traction control fail?? - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Traction control fail??

So, I was at the track last weekend and was coming out of a corner when much to my surprise I nearly high sided when the rear wheel decided to spin up and step out on me... BIG TIME.

Running in "Normal" rather than "Sport" with TC set to 6 which I thought was already pretty high. (2011 F4)

Does this sound normal?

Conditions at the track were dry and hot (not excessively)
Tire pressures perfect running race slicks

Has anyone upgraded their TC? After that scare I am thinking I would like something more reliable that actually indicates when it is kicking in. Also thinking about adding quickshifter. Could anyone make some recommendations?

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 06:12 PM
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the standard TC system is based on a velocity rate of change for a particular gear and to a certain extent your lean angle. Its not the best system out there, it can work ok, but it relies on the speed sensor working correctly. Systems that use two speed sensors and an IMU have become pretty standard lately, but I can't recommend anything personally. I'm redoing mine with a completely different ECU, but I've heard good things about the grip one system.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 08:08 AM
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This is interesting. How can one test the TC (without falling off or destroying the bike that is)

I thought of setting mine to max and see if it kicks in at all going over water and then gradually turn it down and try to observe the difference in behaviour.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al- View Post
the standard TC system is based on a velocity rate of change for a particular gear and to a certain extent your lean angle. Its not the best system out there, it can work ok, but it relies on the speed sensor working correctly. Systems that use two speed sensors and an IMU have become pretty standard lately, but I can't recommend anything personally. I'm redoing mine with a completely different ECU, but I've heard good things about the grip one system.
Thanks for the info, I will have to check it out!
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christosc View Post
This is interesting. How can one test the TC (without falling off or destroying the bike that is)

I thought of setting mine to max and see if it kicks in at all going over water and then gradually turn it down and try to observe the difference in behaviour.
If there is a way to test it I would sure like to know. I thought this was EXACTLY the type of scenario TC was supposed to protect against. (My ribs still hurt from getting tossed around and hanging on...just happy I kept it up)
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 03:23 PM
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I'm wondering aswell how to test the TC on my 2014 F4RR

On my japanese bikes it's very easy to trigger on the highest setting

- 2014 F4RR
- 2012 Brutale 1090RR
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 03:28 PM
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TC won't stop all high sides, well that's my experience.

I run the new f4 with the eldor ecu, and that does have dual wheel speed sensors.

TC is a very difficult thing to get right, even if the mechanical dynamics of the bike are understood via the IMU and other sensors, the rider has a significant input to how the bike will react, e.g how much you hang off and how rigidly you are connected to the bike. Then you have loads of parameters the system does not know, but is programmed for a general setting, the tyres (tires for our American friends) how sticky are they, what pressures are you running, how may laps have you done, what is the track or road temperature, how grippy is the tarmac, how is the damping set on the front and rear suspension the list goes on.

In terms of testing the TC, or at least understanding it, the easiest or safest way is to do as you suggest.

I first started in the rain and accelerating while upright, with TC turned right up, just to lean how it feels when the TC kicks in.

I then moved to the dry and started accelerating hard out of corners, (well inside what I knew was ok) until the TC cut in. Gradually redcucing the TC setting while seeing how it reacted.

On the road I use setting 1 or 2 in the dry and 3 in the rain the Metzler's I use are not, well shall we say rain focused! On the track setting 0 or 1 if I'm experimenting.

TC is like ABS it won't stop you crashing, but should help catch some potential crashes and prevent them.

If TC was perfect race bikes would have just an on and off setting for the throttle.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansoarr View Post
TC won't stop all high sides, well that's my experience.

I run the new f4 with the eldor ecu, and that does have dual wheel speed sensors.

TC is a very difficult thing to get right, even if the mechanical dynamics of the bike are understood via the IMU and other sensors, the rider has a significant input to how the bike will react, e.g how much you hang off and how rigidly you are connected to the bike. Then you have loads of parameters the system does not know, but is programmed for a general setting, the tyres (tires for our American friends) how sticky are they, what pressures are you running, how may laps have you done, what is the track or road temperature, how grippy is the tarmac, how is the damping set on the front and rear suspension the list goes on.

In terms of testing the TC, or at least understanding it, the easiest or safest way is to do as you suggest.

I first started in the rain and accelerating while upright, with TC turned right up, just to lean how it feels when the TC kicks in.

I then moved to the dry and started accelerating hard out of corners, (well inside what I knew was ok) until the TC cut in. Gradually redcucing the TC setting while seeing how it reacted.

On the road I use setting 1 or 2 in the dry and 3 in the rain the Metzler's I use are not, well shall we say rain focused! On the track setting 0 or 1 if I'm experimenting.

TC is like ABS it won't stop you crashing, but should help catch some potential crashes and prevent them.

If TC was perfect race bikes would have just an on and off setting for the throttle.
Thanks for the info, ye and you are right the rider does play a big part in it

Didn't knew that the 2013+ F4's have a different TC system than the 10-12 ones

I have the feeling that the lean angle sensor on my 14 F4RR is faulty and causing the TC to not work properly (i suspect its the lean angle sensor cuz of random engine shutdown while cruising and at stop lights like many other members have), wish there are cheaper alternatives than throwing 600$ for it, its so tiny haha, feels kinda wrong to pay so much for it

- 2014 F4RR
- 2012 Brutale 1090RR
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 04:36 PM
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Apart from the wiring to the IMU, it's worth checking that it is mounted correctly. If it's loose or touching the screen /fairing or if the wiring is, the that may well affect the response of the IMU

----------------------------------------
2015 MV F4, ABS
ECU Re-Mapped with ECU studio (F4 RC base ROM)
QS & Blipper now working with ECU studio and Durashift sensor

others
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