Questions to those went from Gen1 to Gen2 (or have both)! - MVAgusta.net
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-01-2015, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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Questions to those went from Gen1 to Gen2 (or have both)!

Hey guys. I am debating whether I should pickup a '15 RR (or '14). My only compelling argument toward Gen2 is ABS. I love everything about the Gen1 (mine is '07). Lack of ABS bothers me; a lot. The '15 ZX-14R (or ZX1400 for RoW) (30th Anniversary Edition) I picked up has stronger brake feel (the review of it will be in 'Other Marques' forum later). One could argue all day long about learning to brake, etc. But, the fact is, ABS helps!

I think about selling the '07 quite a bit. But, every time I look at it, hear the unique engine rumble at idle, scream like a F1 car (V10 era) past 5k RPM, the aggressive riding posture (yeah, I dig that) and knowing it is Tamburini-original, just can't bring myself up to selling. I have done all the mods for cooling and stuff. Only pending item is Mitchy's hub mod (probably soon).

So, I am torn. One option is to keep '07 and ride sparingly. And, follow additional defensive riding methods. I know that if I sell it, I would be depressed!! Nonetheless, I might still consider picking up a RR. Hence, here are the questions:
- How is the sound with the stock setup? Gen1 has the unique rumble at idle; and, incredible wail as the RPM raises (I have RG3 slipon).
- If you have an after market exhaust (or even RG4), has the sound improved? I would be considering Bodis full-system. Would that improve the sound, in a good way (not just loud)?
- If you went from Gen1 to Gen2, do you regret your decision? (assuming you don't have both; if you do, which one would you prefer?)

As you can tell, the sound is the most important thing I am concerned about when considering Gen2. I read that it now sounds like any other inline-4. If true, that's pretty sad! I don't have an opportunity to check out a RR since my local dealer doesn't stock it.

As MV is working on redesigning the F4 from ground-up for '17 (my guess), I am speculating it is gonna lose under-seat organ pipes! that would be sad since it's a signature F4 styling. Let's hope organ pipes stay!

Thanks.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-01-2015, 07:42 AM
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I went from a '00 F4-750 to a '10 F4-1000 and though I don't regret buying the new bike, I do regret selling the old one to do so.

Whilst the new bikes have a lot more newer technology, they (in my opinion) lack a lot of the soul and attention to detail the older ones do. The first generation F4s had a no-compromise attitude to design and manufacture that the second gen's don't.

For instance: The fact that the seat cowling on the g1 is a single piece. Very expensive to manufacture, since it comes in two halves that have to be bonded, sanded, painted, etc. The g2's have a more "Japanese" approach, where the sides and rear of the unit is a three piece assembly where each bolts to the subframe. The side fairings on the old bikes were single piece, where the front edge "lip" curved back in on itself in a single section. The new bikes have a separate part that screws into the inside.

It's things like that that set them apart in my eyes. I do get the impression when looking closely at a gen2 that in every single component they considered "how can we make this cheaper and build it easier?" (Not a bad thing per se. It's doubtful the company would be anywhere near as strong as it is now, had they not.)

I also think the older engines feel smoother. My '10 is definitely more raucous and vibey than my old '00, which just purred and growled when provoked.

Of course I don't miss the tortuous riding position and the fact that I'd need to lie flat for a few hours after riding it, the heat-warping side fairings, the clutch grabbiness and imprecise throttle response when hot, etc., etc. The new bikes have a lot less quirks and are, in general I feel, better vehicles. But, there's a charm and soul that I miss from the older ones. (Rose-tinted glasses notwithstanding.)

Si
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-01-2015, 09:04 AM
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excellent thread guys, makes me love my 2003 EVO3 even more and its minor imperfections (Soul in my book)

MV F4 750 EVO3 2003
MV Brutale 910s 2007
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-01-2015, 07:07 PM
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Riding position is much better and at least I don`t pinch my thumbs against the tank, break a fuel fitting or crap out a rear hub bearing on "an attention to details" Gen1 . The sound of the Gen 2 is definitely not Jap sounding even with stock exhaust.

2014 MV Agusta F4
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-02-2015, 02:14 AM Thread Starter
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Si:
Thanks for the details. Fully agree on the build quality. Couple of years ago, had a chance to check out the new models. The fit & finish of an RR wasn't good (no offense intended to Gen2 owners). The F3 looked even worse! You are totally right about every component being cheap; also, the fact that cost savings had to be done.

I have the Corse Race ECU; so, the fueling is perfect. It does run super rich. I get the fuel light by about 90 miles!! The transmission latches into first with a thud (ZX-14R does it too). And, the shifting overall is rough, though it was smooth right after changing tranny fluid last year. Perhaps, it needs flushing again. In comparison, 14R's shifting is super smooth!

EVO Chris:
You may want to hang onto yours, for good!

flyboyk:
You are right about Gen1's design issues. I have had my share of problems: cracked radiator and over heating. But, I have done all the relevant mods. Only remaining item is Mitchy's Hub mod. I am being fanatical about ensuring proper chain tension. The bike is fully sorted and runs flawless.

Another thing bothers me with Gen2 is that how badly it gets beat up on the track in WSBK!! At least, Gen1 had an excuse: it wasn't raced! Can't help the thought that it's just a pretty face! Granted, we are talking street vs race bikes. But, it is so uncompetitive and unreliable, downright embarrassing! Let's see how the next gen F4 stacks up.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-02-2015, 01:05 PM
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I think it does OK holding about 10th place in most WSBK races.MV only runs one bike and the rider is has not been stellar since coming to WSBK from being a BSB champion. The Gen1 bikes were never taken racing by the factory and would not have been winners anyway in WSBK

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Last edited by flyboyk; 07-02-2015 at 06:42 PM.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-02-2015, 05:01 PM
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Race wins of the first Generation F4 / Brutale.
In addition was a Luca Scassa CIV Superstock (2006) and Superbike (2008) Champion.


August 29, 2004 - Teuchert - F4 1000S - MV Agusta Ger. - IDM SBK - Schleiz
September 12, 2004 - Teuchert - F4 1000S - MV Agusta Ger. - IDM SBK - Oschersleben
May 15, 2005 - Teuchert - F4 1000S - MV Agusta Ger. - IDM SBK - Eurospeedway 1.Race
May 15, 2005 - Teuchert - F4 1000S - MV Agusta Ger. - IDM SBK - Eurospeedway 2.Race
March 5, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Broadford
March 11, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Eastern Creek
March 11, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Eastern Creek
March 12, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Eastern Creek
April 15, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Mt Gambier
April 15, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Mt Gambier
April 16, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Mt Gambier
April 16, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Mt Gambier
May 28, 2006 - Sorensen - F4 1000S - Munroe Motors - AFM Formula Pacific - Infinion
June 11, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Queensland
June 11, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Queensland
July 2, 2006 - Scassa - F4 1000R - EVR Corse - CIV STK - Misano
July 23, 2006 - Badovini - F4 1000R - Gimotorsports - FIM STK - Brno
August 6, 2006 - Scassa - F4 1000R - EVR Corse - FIM STK - Brands Hatch
August 12, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Phillip Island
August 12, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Phillip Island
August 13, 2006 - Cutting - F4 1000S - Bears Formula 1 - Phillip Island
August 27, 2006 - Scassa - F4 1000R - EVR Corse - CIV STK - Misano
October 6, 2006 - Scassa - F4 1000R - EVR Corse - CIV STK - Imola
January 21, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Eastern Creek
January 21, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Eastern Creek
January 21, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Eastern Creek
March 18, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Wakefield
March 18, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Wakefield
March 18, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Wakefield
March 21,2007 - Marm / Caudill - F4 1000R - 5150 Racing - WERA Heavyweight Supersport -Roebling
April 29, 2007 - Teuchert - F4 312R - Inghart - IDM SBK - Eurospeedway
May 7, 2007 - Mainwaring - F4 312R - X-Bikes - BSB STK - Oulton Park
May 20, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Oran Park
May 20, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Oran Park
May 20, 2007 - Clarke - F4 1000R - TBR - ECRRS STK - Oran Park
July 1, 2007 - Finnegan - F4 312R - MV Agusta Road Racing - Road Racing SBK - Athea
July 1, 2007 - Trinder - Brutale 910R - TBR - Australian Naked - Queensland
July 29, 2007 - Cox - F4 312R - STP - BSB STK - Castle Combe
October 7, 2007 - Badovini - F4 312R - Gimotorsports - FIM STK - Magny Course
Oktober 14, 2007 - Badovini - F4 312R - Gimotorsports - CIV SBK - Mugello
February 17, 2008 - Curtain - F4 312R - TBR - ECRRS SBK - Eastern Creek
February 17, 2008 - Curtain - F4 312R - TBR - ECRRS SBK - Eastern Creek
February 17, 2008 - Curtain - F4 312R - TBR - ECRRS SBK - Eastern Creek
February 17, 2008 - Curtain - F4 312R - TBR - ECRRS SBK - Eastern Creek
February 17, 2008 - Trinder - Brutale 910R – TBR - ECRRS Naked - Eastern Creek
February 17, 2008 - Trinder - Brutale 910R – TBR - ECRRS Naked - Eastern Creek
March 15, 2008 – Trinder – Brutale 1078RR – TBR - Australian Naked – Eastern Creek
March 16, 2008 – Trinder – Brutale 1078RR – TBR - Australian Naked – Eastern Creek
March 16, 2008 – Trinder – Brutale 1078RR – TBR - Australian Naked – Eastern Creek
May 11, 2008 – Burns – F4 312R – STP – BSB Cup – Brands Hatch
May 31, 2008 – Curtain – Brutale 1078RR – TBR - Australian Naked - Winton
June 1, 2008 – Curtain – Brutale 1078RR – TBR - Australian Naked - Winton
July 20, 2008 – Burns – F4 312R – STP – BSB Cup – Mallory Park
August 10, 2008 – Burns – F4 312R – STP – BSB Cup – Knockhill
September 28, 2008 – Scassa – F4 312R – Gimotorsports – CIV SBK - Misano
September 28, 2008 – Burns – F4 312R – STP – BSB Cup - Silverstone
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-03-2015, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haupti View Post
Race wins of the first Generation F4 / Brutale.
In addition was a Luca Scassa CIV Superstock (2006) and Superbike (2008) Champion.

.....
Wow! I stand corrected; apologies for being unaware! And, thanks for digging these up. Still, not acceptable for being uncompetitive and unreliable when running with the best in a high profile series as WSBK!

'06 S2000
'07 F4
'15 ZX-14R 30th Anniversary Edition
'16 Boxster Spyder
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-03-2015, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry-a View Post
Still, not acceptable for being uncompetitive and unreliable when running with the best in a high profile series as WSBK!
I'm not aware of a Generation 2 F4 winning a pot to pie in yet.
That being said You are pretty critical about the F4 performance in WSBK.
I mean look at a clock and see what 1,5 sec a lap are.
Than if Leon wouldn't have binned the F4 in Donnington he would have ended up 6th or so, that was pretty impressive.
And there is the rule book which doesn't let You change certain things even if You would like and have it on the shelve.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-04-2015, 02:42 PM
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Its a tossup. To me, the older F4 looks dated comparing to the newer gen, especially the exhaust piping. I can't comment on the fit and finish of the older bikes because I have never taken them apart. I certainly prefer 2-piece seat unit, because it is a lot more functional. If one side is damaged, I would prefer replacing just one side instead of the whole expensive rear piece. You really need to decide for yourself what is more important to you as everyone would defend whatever bike they have. Unless I would be looking at a Veltro or a CC, there is no way I'd want an older model.

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