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Old 05-03-2011, 11:59 PM   #1
Donsy
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Smile Fuel line modification

Part 1
Okay, I know this has been round the block a few times but as I still get quite a few e-mail's and PM's about the subject I thought I'd better have a go at doing a bit of a foto session.
KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS BEING DONE ON THE METAL TANK OF AN F4 PRE-2010, BRUTALE HAS A PLASTIC TANK AND SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FUEL PUMP O-RING CONFIGURATION, SO ONLY USE THE INFO AS APPLICABLE TO YOUR BIKE.

Question 1. How do I go about
a. Replacing the plastic fuel fittings with the metal fittings if my fuel lines are also damaged etc. (You should replace those plastic fuel fittings regardless)
b. How do you replace the plastic fittings on the fuel pump plate with metal one's - only if you want - I wanted to and you should too.
Question 2. How do I prevent the big o-ring from getting cut every time I remove and re-install my fuel pump.
Question 3. How do you get by struggling with those short fuel lines in the tank.
4. Where can I buy these fuel fittings. Look below or towards forum sponsors.

I will take photo's and add them as I go along, I have the tank and everything spare, so if there are any bit's you would like to see, then ask and I will take more pic's and post them as we go along.

The reason for this is, my fuel fittings never broke, but the first time I took my tank off after a really small 80kph low-side, I saw those fittings and they scared me, then I had to take the tank apart as one of the fuel lines popped in the tank and upon re-assembly I pinched the big o-ring. So here goes.

Please feel free to ask questions or add comments or opinions, this is after all were we are supposed to learn things, I did, and still do.
Add a bit of common sence to my findings and read the manual before attempting any work on your bike, please.

Included in the bottom picture is some purchase info shared by "varium", just remember that you don't HAVE to replace the fuel tank fittings as they never give problems.
I'll post the part numbers from CPC and RS Components, but keep in mind that these fittings are still available directly from several forum sponsors- Double check part number and thread size, they vary between suppliers.
LCD10006BSPT - 3/8" NPT thread size female tank fitting - RS Components part number #387-2527 (3/8" NPT) thread.
LCD23006V - Male 90deg 3/8"
LCD23004V - Male 90deg 1/4"


http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/hose-couplings/3872527/


Scroll to post number #52 for a great lay-out of the another conversion by a member. - http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/showth...t=39000&page=6

And here's a Loctite compatibility .pdf for those in need of more info http://www.loctite.co.th/tht/content...lity_Chart.pdf
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:08 AM   #2
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Good thread
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If you can't fix it with a hammer you've got an electrical problem!
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:59 AM   #3
Donsy
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Default Part 2

In this episode we discuss the tools required. You need a few basic things like screwdrivers and pliers, but also...
a. 5mm thread tap.
b. Loctite 577 thread sealer. And a Loctite compatibility .pdf for those who are too lazy to Google http://www.loctite.co.th/tht/content...lity_Chart.pdf
c. 19mm Socket and Ratchet
d. Click-R pliers - sold by site sponsors Gutsy Performance.
e. Various Double Ear Clamps, size 16-18 and 12-13, as well as/or some s/s screw hose clamps. Your choice.
f. A 10mmx1.25mm bolt to plug the tank drain hole..
g. Some stainless steel cable ties and crimping tool to suit.
h. Metal Putty or Paste to suit.
i. The two metal fittings for the fuel tank as sold by CAG.
j. The two 90deg metal fuel fittings as sold by site sponsors near you : ).
k. Fuel hose to suit either barbs size, or play safe and just get 3/8, as it will do both the bigger and the smaller fittings.
l. Fuel filter while you're in there.

Fuel tank lines:
For the internal and external pressurized lines you need about 300mm of J30R10 spec submersible hose 5/16" internal diameter each. Like this http://www.dayco.com.au/products.asp...217&P=16027766 and this - http://www.dayco.com.au/products.asp...217&P=16027765
For the internal non-pressurized drain and vent lines, you need about a meter of 5/16" Buna-N single wall tubing. Like this -
Example -

And a suggestion on where you can get some of the fittings required - http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/..._fittings_kit/
and some other options http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/...ss_ear_clamps/


PS - These things are constantly changing, so double check before buying, let us know if you find more options.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:11 AM   #4
adecritten
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Lightbulb

It might be worth a mention that once the three special nuts are removed that secure the fuel pump assembly it is easily then removed using 6x 1.0mm Allen screws screwed equally bit by bit into the 3 threaded holes located on the outer part of the casting, this will ease it out nice and squarely.

A smear of silicone grease on the large 'O' ring that seals the pump assembly will help things along no end when replacing it too.




Last edited by Donsy : 06-17-2014 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:56 AM   #5
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Default Part 3

FUEL LINES
First we will tackle the fuel lines using new fittings on the tank side and new 3/8 - 9.5mm hose. I will not tackle the replacement of these fittings using the OEM hose as another excellent thread already handled this.
Said gentlemen might want to add his link here too.

I used 3/8 hose as I had previously bought the metal 90deg fitting from both CAG and DesignCorse, I believe a fitting is available with a 5/16 barb now as well, in which case I would recommend getting 5/16 hose as this is then the same size as the fitting (John Guest) on the fuel rail side.

For the most popular option - I use 5/16 hose and yes I keep the John Guest fittings, I then use the 1/4 barb fuel fitting.

Be careful removing the OEM hose from the JG fitting so as not to damage the o-ring around the fitting.
I make the hoses a bit longer than OEM just to make it easier to work on the bike with the tank just suspended above the bike. +/- 80mm each side.
Next you can fit you hose to both fittings and do up your clamps - whether you choose to use "Double Eared" clamps as I have on the one side or a good quality hose clamp as I have done on the other side is purely your decision to make.
DONE - Easy as that.
Quation, when buying fittings coming from other than site sponsors, you are on your own .


From Noel: "The stainless fitting on the TBs is 7.8mm-0.307"

The Grey John Guest fitting at the O-ring 9.44mm-0.372"
Square Black John Guest fitting at the O-ring 9.34mm-0.368"
so the John Guests are ~3/8"-0.375"......which makes them a nominal 5/16"-8mm fitting

BUT the CPC quick disconnects measure 10.68mm-0.421" or ~7/16"
which makes them a nominal 3/8" fitting
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:32 AM   #6
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Default Thanks Ade

Quote:
Originally Posted by adecritten View Post
It might be worth a mention that once the three special nuts are removed that secure the fuel pump assembly it is easily then removed using M6x1mm screws screwed equally bit by bit into the 3 threaded holes located on the outer part of the casting, this will ease it out nice and squarely.


A smear of silicone grease on the large 'O' ring that seals the pump assembly will help things along no end when replacing it too.


Now if anybody has some of those nuts, and don't want them, I do .
Jokes aside, well worth mentioning Ade, not many people are aware of this extraction method, as I had seen a mechanic get a screwdriver in to take the pump out from my Brutale. I will get to the silicon grease next ; ).
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:07 AM   #7
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Default Part 4 - Fuel pump O-Ring

FUEL PUMP SEAT - "o-ring trap".
As many of you are aware, replacing the fuel pump plate after a service etc. we more often than not, end up getting the big green o-ring pinched in this little ridge between the tank and the welded on base.
This then ends up with fuel all over your bike and you have to strip it again.
Following on from a idea first introduced to me by Noel, I took the time to use a bit of sandpaper and clean that groove out.
I then bought some metal putty from the local hardware/tool and auto shop. Holy crap there is enough variants around, I will let you pick your own okay.

Be aware though that the actual filler does not sit in fuel, as the o-ring goes past this point, so don't panic on me yet.

I used a good filler with high temp rating and good for steel, as many of these fillers are more based toward alloy's.
Once dried I just hand sanded it back to be as gentle a "edge" as possible and then really smooth paper to finish it of.

If you do not feel like going through all this hassle, add some silicon grease to the tank and o-ring when you fit the base plate, you should do this in any case.

Then use a torch, not matches, and if you look down into your fuel tank, you will see the o-ring in one piece hopefully.

MOST IMPORTANT IS TO TRY AND REPLACE THIS O-RING EVERYTIME YOU SREVICE THE SYSTEM.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:26 AM   #8
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Default Part 5

Metal Quick connect fittings on fuel pump mounting plate.
Well maybe this section should have been done as part 2, but awh well, here goes.

If you want to replace the plastic fittings in your fuel pump mounting plate then here goes.
First buy some new metal one's from CAG, or ask the site sponsors close to you....
Second, remove the old fittings using a liberal amount of force, I have re-moved six so far in my short MV life, and only one unscrewed. This is because the sealer they use needs to be heated quite a bit B4 in will release and you can unscrew them.
Just break them and pick the pieces out with something sharp : (.

Next part is easy but delicate, first make sure you have a suitable thread sealer.
Then .... carefully push the little activating pin on the fitting, inwards with your nail or a small screw driver - CAREFULL - then slide the catch all the way off the fitting making sure you catch the little activation pin and spring in the process. Once the catch comes out all the way there will be another spring to catch - I'll just call it the slide spring.

Now add your sealant to the fitting, make sure you have a 19mm socket or something suitable to use, and screw it nice and tight into the base plate. BUT ... and this is good advice... make sure you stop with the fitting in a position where you have enough room to put the slide the catch back into the fitting from the side.
So THINK it through B4 you start, always remember you can go a bit further on a taper thread but the sealer does not like it when you go backwards.
Once you've done that, add the little activation spring and pin, then the slide spring followed by the catch, test it, and you are done.
Done
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:40 AM   #9
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Default Part 6

Removing Carbon canister in tank, and simplifying fuel pump base plate removal.
The coloured drawings are from the Parts List's, and are standard connections for the two possible installations in an F4 tank.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:23 AM   #10
Donsy
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Default Part 6 Continued

Thanks guy's, great input.
Okay, it is obvious that a few guys here have done this modification but because there is basically two systems in use around the world, some are a bit wary to comment. In the US (California) there is the addition of the Carbon emission's canister, is this used in the EU and the UK too?
Here in Australia we did not use this carbon system on our bikes.

I will add a few pictures from the manuals and throw some comments out there.

I did the modification of the overflow lines to my system for the simple reason that it makes for less pipes hanging around underneath my tank, and it makes taking the fuel pump out easier.
I believe removing the emissions system is widely done in the US with special kit's for sale on e-bay, those kits are useless, get the parts together yourself.
What are the benefits to this second modification, I would like to know? Other than it failing quite often, and of coarse the added fuel capacity ? I believe improved fueling and performance is also a big plus?
Let us know what you experienced.

PS. Regardless of which bike or system you are using, NOTHING connects to the pressure regulator (round silver thing at bottom of plate).

Please note that the coloured in tank pictures are from the parts manuals in original mode.

I've added some pictures if the fuel cap and how it works to help prevent further confusion, seems that some guys are blocking some of the overflow or breather holes.
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