MV Agusta Forum banner

Fit 2010 cooling system to F4 1000R

21K views 84 replies 17 participants last post by  gotojoe 
#1 · (Edited)
The old rads and oil intercooler have been removed. I also removed the water manifold that sits at the back of the cylinder head and changed it for a Brutale type which has no spur pipe ( intercooler feed ).

I removed the exhaust system and fitted a Brutale oil take off plate.

This all looks imho very neat and purposeful. : )

Here's a pic of the new plate. It looks so much better with all the little pipes and hoses to the intercooler gone. There is a reason for it looking better..It is better.

Next step is to fit the 2010 Upper radiator and the proper oil cooler which is presently over at Henry's ( Alumacraft ) being slightly adapted. I'll detail those adaptations with pics when it comes back to me..pretty soon : )

While the exhaust system was off I took the time to check the torques of the sump bolts. They were all undertorque spec..ie loose. The engine has only done 800 miles. Food for thought...

joe


PS I'll add in some description of context of each pic L8 R as have to go to work : )
 

Attachments

See less See more
6
#5 · (Edited)
Here is the Thermostat Housing I am fitting off a 2010 F4.

Note the little indent in the housing where the thermostat aligns. This is important to align correctly as it allows pressure build up at the thermostat to be dissipated and at same time the water is directed into top of radiator via the little stub pipe..Pre 2010 F4s don't have a stub pipe.( This in the early phase when the engine is cold and the thermostat is shut).

The main water feed into the top hose is horizontally oriented on the 2010 and vertically on the previous F4. The little stub pipe may also have a role to play in bleeding air to the top of the radiator when filling.

Note the little Stub feed pipe on the top left of the radiator.

Also note how MV have designed in two radiator fans ( really convenient for me as I have two conveniently located fan connectors on my harness : ) ). These fans act as stress members to reduce sagging of the top edge of the rad,,,,,In fact they have also designed in a third bracket to support the Rad.

Also note..The Thermostat is made in Italy ; )

Engine pictures showing how the Oil water intercooler has been removed along with it's yards of plumbing and replaced with a neat Brutale feed plate ..Two unions to go to and from oil cooler and one oil feed pipe to top end...

Also another pic showing the old F4 coolant manifold has been removed as it has a stub pipe on it ( no longer needed ) and replaced with a Brutale version.

Joe
 

Attachments

#12 ·
Hi,

I'm the lucky owner of a 2006 F4 S1+1.
I'm living in France (Paris). I saw this post concerning the improvement of the cooling system of my F4. As the heat is really an issue on this bike, I started the project of replacing the cooling system by the one describe by Gotojoe. I already found the 2 radiators and fans.

I would like to thanks Gotojoe for his posts. Then I would like to ask him if he could describe a little bit more the oil hoses : Diameters, lengths, diameter of the union oil outlet and inlet on the engine side. Any ohter information is welcome as i don't have a brutale under the hand to check these points.

Also many thanks to Donsy for his post on the "battery reverse connected".
Cheers
Dini
 
#13 · (Edited)
Hi Dini,

You have done very well to obtain a 2010 oil cooler and radiator. They are hard to find currently.

I have not finished the project yet.

At the moment the 2010 Rad is at the engineering shop having a temperature sensor fitted to the left tank.

Yesterday I " designed" an adapter bolt to enable fitting of the rad to a pre 2010 frame without changing the brackets on the frame or the rad itself. This is important or the Rad won't be centralized on the frame.

I am having a batch of these bolts made but so far I haven't proved the design by fitting it to the bike.

The new oil cooler has "push" fit oil lines. I am having the oil cooler adapted to take the standard Brutale type fittings. I used a Brutale oil plate to replace the old oil water intercooler.

It would also benefit you to obtain a 2010 thermostat housing as the outlet is angled sideways on it to suit the rad. This will also improve clearance of the fan from the thermostat housing.

So, Use Brutale oil lines and fittings ..make your life simpler ; )

let me know how you get on.

Bon Chance !

joe
 
#14 ·
Hi Joe,

Thank you for your quick answer.

After an a accurate inspection of the Rads, The next step will be to repair the water radiator as 4 blades are in bad condition.

On The oil Rad I have, the connexions are not screwed as you can see on the picture. Which Brutale model did you use?

http://store.proitalia.com/mv_agusta_oem_parts.php
provides us an oem part list. In order to avoid mistakes, we could use their reference numbers in or discution if you don't mind.

so I found the plate ref #80B098837 on the brutale 750 and 1078RR. It looks like the picture you posted. Its connexions are screwed.
Then my issue is to find lines that are screwed on one side and not screwed on the other. The picture you posted shows the hoses are not screwed on any sides. I guess they come from a F4 ref : 8000B4151 and 8000B4152.

Then how do you plan to do the connection between the hoses and the plate?

Cheers,
Dini
 

Attachments

#17 · (Edited)
Hi Dini,

"Then my issue is to find lines that are screwed on one side and not screwed on the other" Dini, lease let me know if you find them ; )



I am having adapter fittings made...standard screw fittings into engine..push fit onto 2010 oil line ..which will be correct to push fit into 2010 oil cooler.

These adapters are at the design / prototype stage Dini ...I'll keep you posted..

joe
 
#15 ·
Come on Joe

What's happening matey, are we going to see more of this project of yours or have you given up huh ?:thewife:

While your doing nothing, can you compare the pre Y10 radiator to a Y10+ rad please Uncle, I have a suspicion the new one is a bit bigger than the older model.

Cheers mate :naughty:.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Hey Donsy,

No definitely not given up. I have the benefit of mate's rates from Henry's shop but this means I have to wait patiently...He also has your rad to mod in the shop...

I am keen as mustard to get it all finished..I'll be in to see H this week.

The top left mounting bracket is off set on the 2010 rad compared to prev. I have measured and spec'd up an adapter bolt which is being made now. This means no need to move the mounts on the rad itself...

The only cutting will be into the right side airbox bottom for the rad cap..no way around that one though.

I may have a picture somewhere showing the two rads....There are more cooling rails and the thing is so much stronger. It also has support points built into the side tanks. The fans are slimline and will go straight in to the space available on the bike.

joe
 

Attachments

#19 ·
Hey Donsy,



The only cutting will be into the right side airbox bottom for the rad cap..no way around that one though.

I may have a picture somewhere showing the two rads....There are more cooling rails and the thing is so much stronger. It also has support points built into the side tanks. The fans are slimline and will go straight in to the space available on the bike.

joe
Joe, do you mean the RH air duct needs to be cut and re-worked to allow a recess for the cap, or the airbox itself?

Thanks!
 
#18 · (Edited)
Why not just fit AN flare (screw) fittings on the 2010 lines

Would it not be simpler to just get some AN type flare fittings and cut off one end of the 2010 lines and install them? Saves from having to mod the oil cooler, make an adapter fitting, etc. If space is an issue (probably is) the ANs can be had in 90 degree angles. Or swap the NPT to male flare fittings on the Brutale oil plate for 90 degree ones, I am thinking the space between the oil plate and the header pipes may be an issue. Greg

EDIT: My bad, the flare fittings are not NPT, they are a parallel-thread M12 x 1.25 to AN-6
 
#23 · (Edited)
Greg:

I collected the adapter bolt yesterday. It fits to the top left mount as this is offset compared to the 2009 and prev top rads. I have to fine tune it a touch but essentially it works which is a good place to be.

The magical part is that the 2010 rad and oil cooler line up perfectly with the 2009 fairings.

The only chopping and hacking is to the right side air tube. I'm going to cut a round hole and then try to have a little panel made with a relief to accomodate the cap.

The last fiddly bit will be to make up a oil cooler to engine bracket...

When I finish this project I will keep all the details so that if anybody else wants to do it they can have a bit of a head start..

For me in the UK overheating is not a particular issue but I quite like a little challenge and if my bike runs consistantly cooler in hot weather then so much the better.

joe

It won't be a round hole ; )
 
#29 ·
Greg:


The magical part is that the 2010 rad and oil cooler line up perfectly with the 2009 fairings.

The only chopping and hacking is to the right side air tube. I'm going to cut a round hole and then try to have a little panel made with a relief to accomodate the cap.
Joe:

Curious if you know how the 2010 models provide access to the radiator cap. Did they redesign the air duct, or would you also have to remove the 2010 air duct to access the cap?

How deep does the cap penetrate into the air duct?

A big thanks goes your way for some of the R and D you and Donsy have done. Even if the stock cooling is OK, I do like the idea of a legit oil cooler and not having to fuss getting the air out of the (water) cooling system.

Greg
 
#24 ·
That's great! Unfortunately I still have not received the oil cooler, I'm hesitant to send more money his way for the radiator until I see the cooler.

Where did you get your radiator?

I have to agree, the 2010 radiator and oil cooler is a much "cleaner" system. Plus I'm a habitual warranty voider.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I have fitted the 2010 rad and oil cooler to the 2009 frame. I discovered much to my amusement that the original 2010 top left bolt will in fact fit the rad to the 2009 frame quite adequately.Whilst a dedicated special adapter would fine tune, it isn't essential . It is necessary however, to fit a nut, bolt and a couple of washers to the right side mount to prevent the whole assembly sliding off to the right...easy to do.

The metal pipe on the floor is a the right side joiner to the water pump..It's a flattened section and has an air bleed at the top of the bend ( like). It also fits perfectly.

There are two fans on the top rad and none on the oil cooler ( as per Brutale I fink ? ) This works well as the connectors are perfectly positioned for the two fan set up on the 09 bikes.

Here's a couple of pictures...

btw The Biposto seat cowl is only on there temporarily. I have a mono cowl which is going onto this bike. The wheels are magnesium and I have monobloc Brembo calipers. I want to change the pan pipes..aesthetically brown doesn't work for me..I want silver colour.

It would be good to lose the cat. I have a cat less mid section but I don't want to screw the bikes tuning messing about with the ecu when for road use I'll not be touching the extremes of the envelope at all.

The frame at the cyl head bolt position is just begging for some protection. Whatever I do it will have to sit out of view under the fairing. I won't be screwing the bike's look by putting a Frankenstein protector through the panel..That is absolute heresy ;/


Edit ( I re-routed the front brake-line ) cheers Donsy : )

Edit. I cut out the air tube to accomodate the radiator cap. It will be possible to remove the cap if needed without removing the air tube..
 

Attachments

#27 ·
+10

Looking good Uncle, that oil cooler is quite a bit bigger than the Ducati one I use on my first mod.
Hey, that front brake line of yours is in a terrible position man, when those forks compress that line would be getting pushed up against the radiator, or am I seeing things :jsm:.
 
#28 ·
I'll double check the brake line Donsy. The rad isn't in it's full back mounted position yet as I've still to do the oil cooler to engine steady bracket..So it is swung forward towards the brake line at mo.

The great thing about this mod is that the rad and cooler assembly fit into the 09 fairing perfectly...to the mm.

Be good to use those rad tank support points if at all possible too.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I'm wondering what sort of temp range the cylinderhead gets to compared to the radiator coolant temp at the sensor position.

I'm thinking is it possible to parallel ( doesn't that sound sexier than bodge ) the rad sensor wires into the cht sensor wires so that I get a dash read out of temp on my project F4..or would it go off the scale and give a non representative read out. ?

Otherwise I will marry a 12 x 1.5mm aluminium boss into the left side tank of the 2010 radiator which as stock is devoid of a sensor...guess there is no dash readout of temp on 2010 bikes then ?

joe

Edit March 2013...I fitted a temp sensor to the radiator...
 
#33 ·
Joe,

how's close the radiator hose and the header in this pix?
 

Attachments

#35 ·
Airbox cutout

Joe: I think I know what I am looking at...the cutout in your air duct is quite larger than I would have thought. Not a negative....that might be the best way to handle the cap however after seeing the pic I am thinking of another option. Is there room between the air duct and the side fairing to accommodate a "L" shaped tube that could be welded/brazed onto the upper RH radiator to relocate the cap, to the right of the header tank? Maybe more trouble than its worth, but would have the advantage of accessing the rad cap without removing the front fairing and air duct.
 
#36 ·
Joe: I think I know what I am looking at...the cutout in your air duct is quite larger than I would have thought. Not a negative....that might be the best way to handle the cap however after seeing the pic I am thinking of another option. Is there room between the air duct and the side fairing to accommodate a "L" shaped tube that could be welded/brazed onto the upper RH radiator to relocate the cap, to the right of the header tank? Maybe more trouble than its worth, but would have the advantage of accessing the rad cap without removing the front fairing and air duct.
Hi Greg,

The cut out will be sealed up with fibreglass most likely. There is zero room for any other fittings laterally. It just fits..exactly..without actually contacting the side fairing.

I have allowed room so that the cap can be removed easily if needed. There is no need to remove the cockpit fairing or the air tube to do this. It is only required to take off the side panel by undoing the Dzus fasteners and that takes ..seconds..

I am very much of the school of leaving the oe parts intact and not add or take away any parts/material unless absolutely necessary.

The airtube cut out is just the way it is..

joe
 
#38 · (Edited)
Yes Greg on the overflow tank...This is then where the rad is filled from just like a car. Just run a 6mm hose from the base of the header tank to the rad cap "neck".

Have a look at Donsy's thread "Oil cooler implant" as alot of the thinking out..correction all the thinking out was done by Donsy and Noel...

Re the fiberglass...It would also be possible to shape aluminium into an inverted dish and rivet it into place..

For the cut out, I marked it with Tippex and then used a red hot screwdriver to slice through it. I put the extractor fan on for this exercise ; )

Have you located a radiator yet ?

joe
 
#41 · (Edited)
A few more pics showing work to date..almost there now...Only a couple of braided AN 6 oil lines to make up. I moved away from the push fit on the 2010 model and converted the oil cooler by having 2 dash 6 male converters welded in place.

I'm having a couple of brackets welded to the rad this week to enable bolts to be fitted to secure the rad guard at the bottom edge of the radiator.

The rad cap filler tube has been relocated to the rear of the neck..not much good sticking out forwards.

I had the rad temp sensor female adapter fitted,,12 x 1.5 mm thread.

The fans are oe 2010 and I hunted these down as they are stress members and also have the mounts for the fan connectors conveniently located.

There is no need to move the radiator- frame locating brackets ...

last bit is the bracket from oil cooler to engine plate..

note the long right angle an 6 adapters have been replaced by stubbier fittings to keep away from pipes...

also note the clic R clamps for the thermostat housing need to be fitted before the rad is fitted or you cant access them...how do I know ? :wtf:

joe
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top