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question about the F4

7K views 35 replies 12 participants last post by  mgivogue 
#1 ·
I have come accross an opportunity to buy a 2010 F4 for around 4k.
It had a minor accident (previous owner lost control of a wheelie :jerkoff:) and requires new rearsets, clipons and fairings (it would be a track bike for me so cheap race fairings).

The only thing that is holding me back right now is the F****ing weight stats - I love the handling of my track Daytona (166kg full tank of gas) but i keep killing the engine so I am moving up to a 1000...when I compare the 2nd gen F4 weight to that of 2011 ZX10R I am deeply concerned.

Questions:
1. how hard is it to drop weight on the F4 and how much can readily be dropped? wheels, battery, exhaust, fairing, road gear a bit of titanium/aluminum, rear sub-frame and front fairing stay are things I normally swap out for weight loss...anything else common to do on the F4?
2. how does it handle with only stripping the road gear and how much does it weigh wet in this setup (I'm guessing 200kg or so).

Thanks in advance for helpfull comments

:popcorn:
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Thought for the day..... Put Marc Marquez on the F4 and you on the ZX10R . How long would it be before Marquez is lapping you ?

My thinking is that we maybe would get better results if we concentrated on our riding skills than obtaining weight savings and other technical minutia on bikes that for most of us are way above our level anyway.

Just a thought and it is only a thought as I know little about racing ..:smoking:

joe
 
#3 ·
marquez - about 20 seconds on a long track. I do not pretend to be a professional racer but I like to setup a bike to my tastes.

regarding improving skills...it is an ongoing process that I do by getting on the track over 20 times a year and taking advanced training twice a year. I've progressed to the quick/racer group (ex. consistent 1:59 at Magny Cours on Daytona 675...World Superstock 600 pole qualifed with 1:44 in 2012) and after a few fitness goals get achieved (lose about 10kg off my fat ass) i plan to enter a few FFM races.

handling of a bike is most important part to me (brakes, suspension and geometry)...the F4 will be overkill for power to me but after breaking 3 engines this year (848 twice and Daytona once) I want to move up in capactiy so that i am not sitting on the rev limit all the time...but I want to retain the handling prowess of the Daytona if possible
 
#5 ·
theres plenty of weight to be saved on the F4 and stats wise the do look bad compaired to some of the newer competition... however i have a 2010 F4 and realisticaly the weight is not a major concern... i've riden the new BMW and 1199 and i can honestly say i prefer the F4.... weight is not a real issue untill your talking about 10ths of a second around a track. to ride the F4's seems very light and they handle exstremely well when setup right and straight line performance i've drag raced both a new ZX10 and S1000rr and the F4 beat the ZX10 and really wasnt far behind the BMW not enough to even consider trading up to one


the only downside to the F4 is reliability, i've not had the greatest of luck with mine.... unless u count the fact i'm still alive which really shouldn't come into a reliabitly comparison haha

wieght saving wise tho, new exhaust and wheels and battery can drop 10kg straight up, then u can start geting into the nitty gritty stuff if u like
 
#9 ·
got the bike...under 4000€ plus around 1k in repairs and it is good for the road/track incl a set of new race fairings (ok, need to replace a side pannel for the road to make it proper pretty).
Big surprise when i took delivery - first registration is 03.2013 and only has 5100km on it...

quick question - any recommendations on race pads? Initial bite is a bit weak IMO even though it is nicely progressive...i'm worried about brake fade on track.
 
#10 ·
I'm through my third set of stock Brembo pads on my track F4RR(they're Brembo SC I think) - they work really well, but wear fast. Initial bite is really strong compared to Brembo RC, for example. A lot of our racers use SBS dual carbon pads, too.
The F4 chassis needs some work to be track-worthy - but do try it in stock config and tell me what you think - there aren't many of us that do track days on 2010+ F4's.
 
#11 ·
thanks for the reply - took the plunge and ordered a set of Brembo Z04 pads for the front (along with Brembo RCS clutch and brake master cylinders). I also flush the brake fluid with some Brembo LCF (my personal favorite for all bikes).

Couple other questions:

Is it normal that the rear brake is so weak? I rarely use it but it is so weak that even at a stop on a slight incline the bike will roll if i do not pay attention.
Any suggestions on the geometry setup (drop/raise the front or rear)?
What are the front brake lines made of? They do not seem to be steel braided or rubber...
 
#12 ·
Is it normal that the rear brake is so weak? I rarely use it but it is so weak that even at a stop on a slight incline the bike will roll if i do not pay attention.
.
I think the problem is the location of the rear master cylinder. It's so close to the exhaust that it boils the fluid or over expands (distorts) the internals or both.
 
#14 ·
oil leak fixed, rearsets/Brembo RCS/tank protector/stompgrips arrive this week and get installed for weekend, race fairings/engine protections/Brembo Z04 pads ordered and should arrive in 2-3 weeks...should have fairings, engine protectors and GPS laptimer installed by Dec and wait for spring!

First impressions on road:
slow steering - hope taller rear tire will help. Going to test 200/60 first and then try 190/60 to see which is best on the bike...if this fails, I will raise the rear like Paors recommended.
very stable mid-corner
wicked throttle response and power
seat is going to bust my nuts...but I will use race foam for track so i will just avoid pot-holes on the road
waaaaaay to high for my little legs (hope i don't need to raise the rear any more).

If anyone does trackdays in France, Germany or Italy - let me know when you go and I will try to join!
 
#15 ·
You get the greatest weight savings by swapping to a full titanium exhaust. But that's kind of expensive. If I recall, I took 20 pounds off my SPR very quickly.

What rims are on the bike? If you have the traditional star pattern, swap to either carbon fiber rims or the Brembo Ultralights from a 2007 and later F4. That saves a bunch of unsprung weight.

The F4 likes to ride tall. For us guys with short legs it is not comfortable at all. There are dozens of threads about ride height, sag, compression and damping. Don't go by the settings used in most books or Japanese bikes. The F4 is peculiar. Donsy actually races an F4 and has done for the past 5 years or so. Check with him for ideas on ride height. Get a ride height tool. That's where you begin with these bikes. Then sag, then compression and damping.
 
#16 ·
sorry for being a pest...next round of prep being planned and 1 main thing i want to get is a quickshifter (and a good slipper clutch but that is another topic).

Right now, i am leaning towards the HM Quickshifter GP http://hmquickshifter.com/shop/hm-gp/hm-quickshifter-gp-mv-agusta/ but in order to benefit from seamless downshifts i need an auto-blipper...anyone know of any way to upgrade the MY10 F4 so that it has a decent auto-blipper? I asked MV if it is possible direct swap the ECU to the F4RR MY13 but no reply yet...
 
#18 ·
it doesn't have the eldor ECU. What i asked MV is if the MY10 can be easily upgraded with an Eldor ECU so that I can add a bidirectional shifter. Other than the cost of a new ECU (and maybe wiring harness), is there any mechanical reasons or changes needed on my F4 ?
 
#20 ·
Firstly, I don't think you'd want the Eldor ECU. There's no way to tune it. There is no fueling solution through flash, dynojet or Bazzaz.
Secondly, the shifter doesn't work on the Eldor equipped bikes. They've even stopped advertising it on their website.
The upshift function works most of the time but there is no "auto blip" downshift.
 
#21 ·
Correct me if I'm wrong, I remember MCNs video of the 2013 bike and clearly remember the autoblip in the videos. If the bikes had autoblip during the journo press release, then why would they go back and stop it all together. This false advertising is starting to piss me off.
 
#22 ·
I know what you mean. It very clearly worked when Don Canet of Cycle World rode it at the press release.
If it can work then how does it not work now? I think they were using another brand or device for the release and they never really had the technology themselves.
What other explanation could there be?
 
#23 ·
hi all...quick update on the project bike for combined road/track (90% track) use.

  • 2010 MV Agusta F4 (first reg 2013 with 5100km) originally accident insurance writeoff and bought real cheap
  • engine casing repairs under 500 chf
  • GB Racing engine and alternator protection - note. the 2013 protection fits nicely if anyone wants it...it is also FIM homologated.
  • installed GPS 3x lap timer i had on 848
  • painted (nose/tail only) race fairings
  • bought and installed light tech rear sets in reverse shift
  • bought and installed Brembo RCS19 brake master cylinder and added small reservoir. Using Brembo LCF6000 fluid.
  • added tank protector (side and rear)
  • added stompgrips
Unfortunately, most of the remaining cash is going to x-mas and buying a new motor for my Daytona that blew up spectacularly on-track last year...so i only have about 1100 budget remaining for anything else.


Here is what remains to do for the final build - if anyone knows of good deals on any of the parts (donors and sponsors welcome - but no, not racing next year - just 20 or so trackdays in prep for 2016. I need to get confidence on the bike as well as get in shape myself physically)



  • ECU
  • quickshifter (link rod type)
  • decat mid-pipe, slipon or full race exhaust
  • race air filter
  • proper slipper clutch
  • 520 chain kit and lightweight carrier
  • Brembo clutch master cylinder
  • Front cartridge upgrade kit (brembo, bitubo etc)
  • race shock (brembo, bitubo etc)
  • lighter wheels and brake calipers (carbon is my hope but no budget for it till end of 2015)
  • general spares of everything i can get my hands on (from engine all the way to frame and fairings)
 

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#25 · (Edited)
i wish - so far, budget is under $7000 US including purchase of the bike.

I plan to keep full bike budget under 15k

2009 full prepared Daytona 675 budget was 7500 until engine went pop...i have to invest about 3k in new engine and prep between now and end april. :(

Most of my cash goes into trackdays and tires (about 5k per year).
 
#29 ·
bleed brakes and adjust pedal some but not too much to cause binding and dragging the brakes. it should work good, mine does. Not sure what to say about turning, mine turns good and has a real time adjusting steering damper. Autoblip up and down, I am afraid to try it for fear of damaging something. I'll let someone else do that and read about it.
 
#31 ·
voila latest update...

cut out the cat on the OEM headers and plonked the money down on a MWR HE filter, Microtec ECU (thnx Chris @ xbikes) and Zard Penta Evo slipon...next 2-3 weeks is getting it all installed again and hopefully the weather will be nice enough to test soon.

Only thing left will be final tune of the ecu - would like to find a REAL CHEAP used autotune module or will have to take a chance on the local dyno shop which has zero experience on microtec and even less with english :eek:
 
#35 ·
update

Bike feeling neglected - stripped down (removed cat, removed slipon, removed air filter, removed tank, removed ECU) and now waiting on exhaust from Zard, air filtrer, ECU and quickshifter from x-bikes, wheels from Ram-Italia and brake discs/pads from Brembo...waiting is soooooo hard.

At least the weather sucks so even if the parts were here I could not test

:bawling:
 
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