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Legal action against MotoGB over F4 rear subframe warranty

10K views 57 replies 28 participants last post by  Mark Smith 
#1 ·
Hi there,

I am at the beginning of a legal action against MotoGB over the warranty service provided on the 2010 F4 rear subframe issue as I believe it is absolutely crazy to fix a manufacturing issue with a cheap patch that 1) makes the motorbike ugly 2) makes removing the battery impossible and 3) clearly flag that your bike was part of the recall, hence reducing the resell value.

This warranty work is particularly shocking as we know that rear-subframes that do not risk breaking do exist and that MV Agusta "offers" them at a reduced price of EUR175 meaning that getting your bike back to the standard it should have been at the beginning would cost you more than GBP300 whereas the fault clearly comes from MV.

But anyway, my question is: I understand that before going to Small Claim Court one needs to try to resolve the issue with the company first (which I am currently doing by regularly sending RoyalMail recorded delivery letters to them) and if the company refuses or doesn't provide a satisfactory solution, then try to use an Ombudsmen, Trade Bodies or Associations to try and sort out the issue. If this second step remains not satisfactory, then move onto Small Claim Court.

I have asked MotoGB to provide me with a list of Ombudsmen, Trade Bodies or Associations but doubt they will provide me with such a list so I was wondering whether you know any Ombudsmen, Trade Bodies or Associations that could deal with Motorbike warranty issues?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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#2 ·
One Hell of a first post.....
 
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#4 ·
Your post is pretty vague, not exactly sure what your problem is with the bike, and what your issues are regarding warranty

dont want to sound rude, but could you clarify and go into more detail.

Warranty claims are normally not a problem as MV eventually pays up
I had a recall years back for the tyres fitted to the 312R, the bike was recalled, tyres replaced and it took the dealer almost a year to get the cash. but thats another story, another time.

Sorry to here of your situation but I am still trying to understand what the initial problem was? what the repair was? and why your not satasfied.

Could you please detail more, from start to finish, even a few pics if possible to expalin matters more.

MotoGB are members here and I am sure they have read your post although they have stopped posting on the furum themselves, and in a situation like this, there communication is possibly best kept private between them and yourself.

Welcome to the forum. justr a shame its in these circumstances,

hope you take time to update us with the full story from start to finish


.
hahaha
You need to get out more Roy. He's complaining about the sub-frame fix for the Y10 F4's. Ask Eric.
 
#6 ·
gvanrenterghem,welcome to the forum,that is one hell of a forum name almost every letter of the alphabet,good luck with your claim,maybe you should direct your claim straight to MV themselves and while your their mention all the rear hub failures in the past and present and their thoughts on that subject.I agree the subframe fix is pathetic and unattractive when they claim the MV is the most beautiful motorcycle in the world.Keep us posted.:yo:
 
#7 ·
It is pretty obvious to me. The subframe is bust, botched and the bike's value banjaxed.

I don't see any problem with this being aired in public either..We aren't living in a totalitarian state.

Of course it is also true that MotoGb should be given every opportunity to resolve this out of court...and I hope they do.

joe
 
#8 ·
+1

It is pretty obvious to me. The subframe is bust, botched and the bike's value banjaxed.

I don't see any problem with this being aired in public either..We aren't living in a totalitarian state.

Of course it is also true that MotoGb should be given every opportunity to resolve this out of court...and I hope they do.

joe
:smoking:
 
#9 ·
Welcome to the forum..

I’m sorry to hear you find yourself in this situation with the UK importer, but if it can’t be resolved amicably, and you find yourself needing to go to a SCC to get a resolution, then it might not be advisable to air this issue in to great a detail on a public forum.

That’s only my opinion.

Normally in these circumstances, the buyer/Complainant will need an independent expert report on the condition of the sub-frame and whether the Recall repair offered by the official importer is of a satisfactory quality under the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

The Judge at a SCC will certainly request an expert report to be undertaken to assist him in making a decision on the case presented in from of him, as he will not be an expert..

Try the IMI and ask them whether they have any experts listed on their membership that has expertise in this area.

http://www.motor.org.uk/

I understand how you feel about your pride and joy, but trying to prove diminishing value as a result of this Recall repair will be very difficult, as it is open to too much subjectivity.

Good luck .


.
 
#11 ·
I would just pay the 150 euro and fit it myself, just not worth all the hassle/worry/time over 150 euro, plus how well doyou think Moto GB will view any further warranty claim after you have taken them to court?
 
#21 ·
MV Agusta have accidentally made a kock up with the F4 sub-frame, but non the less it is a kock up. So should the customer pay? NO, should Moto GB pay? morally no, legally ?? Finally should MV repair it in a manner that would be agreeable to all concerned? YES they should, with out question, which they are but they are making a complete boch of the bike in the process which we all know is a cheap boch fix, so much so that they have the neck to give you the option not to have it done, if you are willing to sign a waver, shame on you MV:thewife:
Thats probably one of the main reasons that I now know more people that have owned MV's then poeple that own MV's

I'm going to Milano bike show next week and if I manage to see Luciano Pinn MV's Tech service manager I'll have a word with him and find out his point of view, which may be interesting.:violin:
 
#12 · (Edited)
I got rolled over by Parcelforce recently. They took me for £ 83.00.

I should have taken them to Small Claims Court. The problem is I would have to neglect my work to do this and it didn't make economic sense. So I let them off. Parcelforce know this happens and they get away with murder..

Mike, as I understand things,
if a customer makes a warranty complaint to his dealer..the dealer passes this on to MotoGB and Motogb pass this on to the factory in Italy ie MV Agusta themselves make the decision.

MotoGB are not the decision makers.? The are not MV Agusta.

When my radiator burst I had Russ from Bennetts of Barnsley collect the bike for inspection. The rad was removed and photographs sent to Italy . The replacement rad was sent to Bennetts for settlement of my warranty claim via MotoGB.
Without any disrespect I see MotoGB as the UK MV Agusta "agents"...

It's always good to talk to people and MotoGb will be no exception there. I get the feeling a certain degree of frustration has come into the equation with this guys situation and that is why he has come to air his plight on the forum.

joe
 
#13 ·
I guess you can see from this picture why MV feel the need to fit the strengthening brackets
 

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#14 ·
Maybe the answer is to fit a strong subframe to a bi-posto motorcycle in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Under the Sale of Goods Act, shouldn't an item be fit for purpose?

Therefore the subframe should be replaced for one that can do the job!

Lets be frank here, MV have a small enough customer base without trying to f##k the people who do love their bikes- how long will they last if current/previous owners advise potential buyers to stay away because of bad experiences like this.

I hope you are successful- if MV had stood by their product in the recent past (hubs, overheating, etc) they may have avoided a lot of their financial problems!
 
#15 ·
Thanks JDS, this exactly what I needed. I will check what motor.org.uk has to say and hope MotoGB replies to me and finds an amicable solution outside court... Indeed, I find it a bit shameful to bother the court and use public finance for things as obvious as this improper recall...

I agree that MotoGB is only an agent, but in addition to taking our money for importing these bikes, their role is also to defend the MV brand and their customers, which they seem to have failed in that matter.

And I fully agree with gotojoe... It is not for the amount of money but for the principle. If people were sticking to their principle more often, the world would probably be a better world. How many times I hear people saying "what can we do?"... well guys, you can do a lot if you speak up, actually... but it might be a stretched conclusion for a subframe issue... ;o)
 
#16 ·
I wish the OP the best of luck. While building powerful and beautiful bikes MV definitely isnt a byword for quality or customer service. Its really in their best interests to sort this out properly if they hope to reach their goals of market penetration. Right now they have the enthusiasts and those who dont actually ride them but if they think they want to run with the likes of Ducati and the Japanese they will need to up the quality because, as we have seen posted here, people often think "Ive never had these problems with my Honda that costs half as much."
 
#17 ·
Hi everybody,

Just wanted to give you an update and confirm that "if you don't ask (extremely firmly), you don't get". The issue has now been sorted, my rear subframe changed for free and the motorbike back to the spec it should have never changed from. I had to open a small claim case and it took me more than 3 months in total, but I really think it was worth it, just for the principle.

I would advise anyone who has this subframe issue not to continue to bend over and let MV Agusta abuse them and I would simply sue them to small claim court. I have become an expert to this and would be happy to provide guidance as to how it works. It takes time but it pays off to get the respect a customer is due.

On my side I simply hope it won't be MotoGB who will end up having to pay and that MV Agusta will behave responsibly and reimburse MotoGB for the costs incurred.
 
#20 ·
I'm sure that this will all be OK in the end. ErikV had the same issue with his subframe, I would suggest you contact him for advice, I know his has been replaced.

Above all else I would try very hard to keep on good terms with MotoGB I'm sure this can be resolved without taking legal action which is a pain in the ass for all concerned..

Best of luck.


:popcorn:​
 
#23 ·
Hi adecritten,

Sadly you are wrong and I had to sue MotoGB to small claim court. Seeing a judgement had been taken against them they decided to sort this outside court, finally, after 5 letters sent to them clearly saying that if they did not change my rear subframe for free I would take them to court.

Still amazed it takes so much effort to clients to get something like that sorted and required me to waste the time of the legal system in the UK.
 
#28 ·
Hi Frenaugo,

I threatened many times over the phone then 5 times with recorded/tracked letters, as the court request before filling small claim. The small claim also requires you to try everything to sort-out the issue outside court, including using a mediator, which I offered to the defendant. Since I did not get much reply on this mediator offer, I filed a small claim, tired of waiting and getting the same answer that the fix had been done properly. Because you can request judgement after two weeks if the defendant has not replied or not filed a counter claim, I immediately ordered that a judgment be entered against the defendant, which happened 1 day later. Then once the defendant received by post the court decision against them they got back in touch with me and offered me to settle out of court.

Keep in mind that if a judgment is entered against a company, this will be put on record and their credit rating will worsen, which is not something any company wants in these times of difficult borrowing.

I think some high end manufacturers and wholesalers tend to forget that you don't deal with the same type of clients depending on whether you sell a GBP1,000 scooter or a GBP15,000 motorbike. The later usually comes with much more understanding of the system and often knows how to read an annual report, including the Balance Sheet which tells you a lot of things about how leveraged a business can be...

Despite the fact that I got my subframe fixed the way it should have been in the first place, what bothers me is that never at any point in time during the process did MotoGB or MV Agusta recognized that the fix that had been done on the faulty subframe was awful and that they had done wrong. I fear that the only reason why I got my subframe issue sorted is because of the need for a good credit rating by the defendant.

Obviously after what happened to me I will highly recommend anyone to avoid buying a brand new MV. Anyway I doubt they will still be in business in a couple of years.
 
#30 ·
Hi Chris_j,

This comment is based on their past history of going bust every few years and being saved from the abbyss by bike/car companies, which tend to be rare these days as these potential buyers are trying to sort out their own issues.

Also takes into account the fact that if you don't take the look into account they perform rather poorly compared to the competition, often cheaper... Lastly, the reliability is questionable and the bad reputation MV Agusta has for serving its warranty and respecting its clients. Maybe I am too bearish...
 
#32 ·
I tend to agree with you even though I'm on my 7th F4 over the last 12 years (F4 1000RR at mo). I would hate to own a MV and have to relay on the everage garage:jsm: and as for spares??? Ebay every time.:mouthwate.
Thats why I said to you in one of my previous posts, that I now know more people that have owned a MV then people that own MV's:ahhh:
 
#33 ·
I think the MV F4 especially performs on the lower end of the scale but that does not mean it's a bad bike per se. It's just the levels of the bikes are so good right now I think. And MV is now going to BSB right? So some development will result from motor racing so that would be good. I think MVs are here to stay. They announced new models and I for one am looking forward to getting a Brutale :) to add to my garage. That said I do prefer the old MV F4s over the new ones. I have had plenty of time to think about it and while the new one is gorgeous the old one is better :)
 
#34 ·
Fair play and good work in IMHO - not enough people stand up to this kind of thing and principles are often compromised as a result. It's disappointing to know that MV haven't done the right thing here - I'm still astounded that they have the gumption to allow such a "fix" to be offered as a solution?!!!

MotoGB have been left to pick up the pieces but at the end of the day they represent the brand. They should have sorted this out without the need to threaten legal action.
 
#35 ·
thank you!

gvanrenterghem;
thank you for standing up and going the extra mile

the original sub frame was a mess......the fix was worse

even chicken shit Aprilia stepped up and replaced EVERY RSV4 motor...

after Piaggio Group figured out all the connecting rods were bad (ISO-900X??????)......and the company would tank if they didn't step up

typical motorcycle manufacturer business model....
hire pseudo engineers......the rear hub, TBs and ECU
use cheap/fragile parts.....fuel line quick disconnects come to mind
and stone wall any complaints
 
#39 ·
Hey 007JamesBond,

The issue was only on the F4 in 2010. Only a few number of bikes was impacted. The risk is that the subframe collapse and you end up with your manhood on the rear tyre, not sure anyone of us would enjoy this.

You should be fine with the Brutale...
 
#40 ·
In my business the ethos is this :-

If a job goes into a customer and is causing them a problem it is a huge priority to get in , get it out and replace faster than FCUK.

Then you keep the customer..and anyway..I don't believe in taking the P out of the customer either...he has paid and deserves the correct job , fit for purpose..

joe
 
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