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ECU cracked for remapping...for real??

12K views 20 replies 9 participants last post by  X81 
#1 ·
On a whim I emailed ECUnleashed after seeing an advertisement last week.
http://ecunleashed.com/mv-agusta-triumph-ktm-global-tuning-network-news/

They are saying they've cracked the Marelli 5SM ECU for my 2007 F4R and can fully remap. Unfortunately you get a canned map.
Anyone care to comment? ::stickpoke::flamethro
I'll check this thread once it reaches 10 pages.:later:

Hello Mike,
Yes, that is what sets us apart from the competition, we are not just going off the TPS and a single fuel curve. We change ignition timing as well as fuel tables for complete optimization. We are also able to lift all the factory speed and rev limit restrictions. At this time they are not tuneable by the end user and we load our program straight onto your ECU, however we are able to fine tune each individual flash for specific modifications to the motor.
Let me know if you have any other questions,
Thanks
-ECUnleashed Staff

***********************************
On 11/26/2012 3:20 PM, Mike R wrote:
Hey ECUnleashed. There are many people out there offering 'remapping' of the Magenetti Marelli IAW 5SM ECU. But these are just resetting the TPS and adjusting the single fuel mixture base curve. As you know the 5SM for the MV Agusta has the adjustments for timing, rev limit, etc locked from any user adjustment.
Are you saying you guys have fully cracked the 5SM and allow unrestricted timing adjustments and fuel mapping adjustments at all specific rpms?
Are these tunable by me using your software or are they preloaded and “canned”?
Thanks
Mike
 
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#2 ·
I care to comment. Two years ago I posted up about my local dyno guy working with a renowned tuner from the Midwest U.S. to do just that. They used my 312R, with the Marelli 5SM, as their test pig to do quite a bit of mapping and ECU changes...including changing the running temperature a bit. It took them a looong time, but my 312R runs very well.

I am not sure if the same guy/guys are working with ECUnleashed, but you might try contacting Rob's Dyno in Gardner MA http://www.robsdyno.com/ and askingh im some questions. That's my 312R on his home page....
 
#3 ·
Chuck is spot on there. It is of very little use if someone can re-write the ECU, but have no map to put on the thing. Running the bike on a Dyno is the most efficient way to know if your map is better than OE, or if you are making improvements rather than making it worse.
 
#6 ·
NO! data logging Lambda is, on the road in the real world

dynos are for all out race motors, where you're looking at 3/4+ throttle

put a lambda meter on your ride and see how bad factory maps are

this is a real ECU;
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/sq6m_webpage/sq6m_hand.jpg

its a Pectel SQ6M
the hand holding it is my buddy Bob
he makes real ECUs too

here is his software take a few seconds and learn something;
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/autocal.htm
real fuel injection not crap from an dead end electronics museum

his turbo Gixxers held all the 4 cyl Bonneville records from '89-'02

here are my buddies Marc and Micah last year at the Texas Standing Mile;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXm-v61po1E
that was Saturday listen to Micah "its holding, its holding....." it didn't blow up:stickpoke
Sunday they went 200.8MPH World's Fastest Twin

i helped so did Bob
 
#9 ·
NO! data logging Lambda is, on the road in the real world

dynos are for all out race motors, where you're looking at 3/4+ throttle

put a lambda meter on your ride and see how bad factory maps are

this is a real ECU;
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/sq6m_webpage/sq6m_hand.jpg

its a Pectel SQ6M
the hand holding it is my buddy Bob
he makes real ECUs too

here is his software take a few seconds and learn something;
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/autocal.htm
real fuel injection not crap from an dead end electronics museum

his turbo Gixxers held all the 4 cyl Bonneville records from '89-'02

here are my buddies Marc and Micah last year at the Texas Standing Mile;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXm-v61po1E
that was Saturday listen to Micah "its holding, its holding....." it didn't blow up:stickpoke
Sunday they went 200.8MPH World's Fastest Twin

i helped so did Bob
With all due respect this belief that dyno's are for race engines and only real road riding can tune a bike is quite frankly bollocks.

The map in that M226 of yours that you like so much was written on a dyno here thousands of miles away from you yet it seems to be doing alright.

I write maps from idle upwards on a dyno and have great results all the time so why this idea of race bikes and only mapping full throttle on dyno's exists is beyond me. I do road test but i use the road to test for throttle reponse and how well the transients are blending together and for overall "feel" but in terms of accuracy a dyno with a good operator is far superiour.

Every example that you post up is for a forced induction engine but you apply these examples to naturally aspirated engines and the two are totally different beasts with totally different tuning requirements.

I've also done some tuning with Autotune systems/lambda's and whilst they are better than nothing you do need to have a stratergy of how you will approach the mapping process and know exactly what you want the result to be otherwise your throtle movement can be too fast for the lambda to lock onto and sample.

These systems these days are mutli layered 3D systems with an exhaustable amount of variables and tuning options. Approaching them like the good old days of changing jets and needle settings by ear is lauaghable. There are far too many variables for this to be precise in my opinion.


:)
 
#10 ·
When I chatted with an ECU Unleashed dealer they indicated they could map individual bikes on their dyno as a "tuning center", not just install the pre-written map....They paid extra for that license.
 
#11 ·
cracked?

Chris;
my '08 910R is infinitely better with the MicroTec you supplied, than the stock or the Kit ECU ( Kit ECU was worse than stock) thank you

at least its now ridable down low, >4,000 is fine

but it sucks fuel like a pig......sitting at a light with a tail wind it reeks of gasoline.....

all amounts in L/100km

4.12 '72 BMW R75 @185kph going from Heidelberg to Copenhagen 1200km
5.88 '62 Abarth 982cc race car eng #229-141 FIA exhaust 2-40mm Webers terrorizing the street/canyons, Bruce McLaren had #229-235
6.03 '04 Aprilia RSVR factory Ti cans city/highway
6.35 '08 910R MicroTec+Arrow shorty+filter highway @135kph
6.53 '02 BMW R1150GS open pipe/ filters @135kph 640km
10.27 '66 Chevy 7539cc 3215lbs 800cfm carb 4 speed city/highway 160,000km
12.37 '08 910R MicroTec+Arrow shorty+filter city
13.83 '04 Lexus RX330 city/highway, Mom's POS

you think there is a problem with some maps????

a carburettor equipped BMW going 50kph faster than the injected BMW, uses 37% LESS fuel :wtf:

in town my work truck (Chevy) with a motor 8.28 times as big, uses 17% less fuel than my Brutale in town:wtf:
the truck has ~330hp and 550lbft of torque:naughty:

its NOT just the Brutale Chris

i've seen the fuel "curves" in the Bosch Motronic, they are zig zag lines :wtf:

my 1150GS shows A/F of 12.2:1 @ 4,000rpm sitting on the center stand, on decel its full rich until 3,000 then its out at 16-17:1 and banging in the pipes

at 2,250rpm under light acceleration my Aprilia RSVR goes over 17:1 but just for maybe 1 cell, you barely feel but with the lambda you can sure 'see' it
it WAS full rich on decel too, i got 35-40 more mi/tank by cleaning that up

the reason i posted the boosted bikes.....is to show that 1 ECU will write a base map for just about anything....and its OLD, you just answer the questions and maybe change the injectors and the MAP sensor

the only 'reaction' time i saw for lambda was 5ms.....compared to a sniffer at 6-12 seconds....


to convert MPG to L/100km
235.214/MPG = L/100km
to convert L/100km to MPG its the reverse
235.214/L/100km = MPG
 
#12 ·
Chris;
my '08 910R is infinitely better with the MicroTec you supplied, than the stock or the Kit ECU ( Kit ECU was worse than stock) thank you

at least its now ridable down low, >4,000 is fine

but it sucks fuel like a pig......sitting at a light with a tail wind it reeks of gasoline.....

all amounts in L/100km

4.12 '72 BMW R75 @185kph going from Heidelberg to Copenhagen 1200km
5.88 '62 Abarth 982cc race car eng #229-141 FIA exhaust 2-40mm Webers terrorizing the street/canyons, Bruce McLaren had #229-235
6.03 '04 Aprilia RSVR factory Ti cans city/highway
6.35 '08 910R MicroTec+Arrow shorty+filter highway @135kph
6.53 '02 BMW R1150GS open pipe/ filters @135kph 640km
10.27 '66 Chevy 7539cc 3215lbs 800cfm carb 4 speed city/highway 160,000km
12.37 '08 910R MicroTec+Arrow shorty+filter city
13.83 '04 Lexus RX330 city/highway, Mom's POS

you think there is a problem with some maps????

a carburettor equipped BMW going 50kph faster than the injected BMW, uses 37% LESS fuel :wtf:

in town my work truck (Chevy) with a motor 8.28 times as big, uses 17% less fuel than my Brutale in town:wtf:
the truck has ~330hp and 550lbft of torque:naughty:

its NOT just the Brutale Chris

i've seen the fuel "curves" in the Bosch Motronic, they are zig zag lines :wtf:

my 1150GS shows A/F of 12.2:1 @ 4,000rpm sitting on the center stand, on decel its full rich until 3,000 then its out at 16-17:1 and banging in the pipes

at 2,250rpm under light acceleration my Aprilia RSVR goes over 17:1 but just for maybe 1 cell, you barely feel but with the lambda you can sure 'see' it
it WAS full rich on decel too, i got 35-40 more mi/tank by cleaning that up

the reason i posted the boosted bikes.....is to show that 1 ECU will write a base map for just about anything....and its OLD, you just answer the questions and maybe change the injectors and the MAP sensor

the only 'reaction' time i saw for lambda was 5ms.....compared to a sniffer at 6-12 seconds....


to convert MPG to L/100km
235.214/MPG = L/100km
to convert L/100km to MPG its the reverse
235.214/L/100km = MPG
I feel that i'm never going to convince you of anything but i'll have another go anyway.

So to address the shit fuel consumption have you put it on a dyno?

My guess is no becuase you think dyno's are for race bikes over 3/4 throttle only. So instead you have a bike that is running rich that could be fixed but you won't. Clearly the climate differences between here and there are greater than anticipated but then i can only write maps here based upon what i see infront of me.

How is that anything to do with the ECU? Map it and it'll return significantly more miles per gallon.

I've got customers getting anything from 40-50mpg on a brutale which is obviously dependant upon riding style.

Using a lambda sensor is fine but you'll not be able to link it into the Microtec as their system uses CAN BUS to communicate all the data.

I could rent you an autotune system but if you can get to a dyno then do that, either ways round what you're posting here says your bike needs properly mapping.

Map your bike properly and then you'll have a fair example to post up and also much improved AFR and mpg.

The groundwork and other areas of hard work are already done for you but unfortunatly sometimes my base maps will be out in different countries but then i do supply these as base maps to work from not fixed maps that you're stuck with without the option to fine tune.
 
#14 ·
I agree with Chris. A chassis dyno is an excellent device for tuning drivability.
The reference to racing implies that race bikes don't need the attention to drivability that street bikes do and that too is in error. (Some of the big name dyno guys in Montreal think that you only need to tune a race bike at WOT from 6000 RPM up!)

Don't think that my opinion about 'canned' maps is just a rationalization to convince me that tuning is necessary. Rather, Dynojet has used the 'free map will solve your problems' concept to sell their product from the beginning, even though it's erroneous.

Rob, Wayne MacDonald, and myself tuned Chuck's bike.
Why does it take 3 tuners to tune an MV?
We used a RexXer Powergate to read/write and WinOLS to fiddle the ignition tables and Rob's Dynojet 250i with Tuning Link along with Tuneboys Power Commander Emulator to auto-tune the fuel tables. Then they were converted back to the native calibration file and flashed into the ECU.
Wayne is the guy who knows the to-ing and fro-ing with the files as well as the Tuneboy stuff.

All you need to tune the 5SM is; read/write capability, some form of tuning software, and data, the more the better.

Doug
 
#15 · (Edited)
Howdy Doug....I didn't want to go throwing your name into the fray here, but I'm glad you "tuned" in.

The 312R is still running very well. It has, however, picked up the dreaded surge at idle. Can I simply use a VDST for the 5SM and do a reset on the TPS or should I go see Rob? I haven't pestered him in awhile. How are things?

Chuck
 
#17 ·
Hey Chuck, Rob couldn't log in for some reason, but he said that there was a tube in the airbox (I'm completely blanking on what he's described) which had a problem (read, leak) and that may be the source of your strangeness. VDSTS probably won't help.

Also, I forgot to mention that I contacted ECUnleashed two years ago when they were starting.
They are bed (business reference) with Piasini, so the serial programming device is a Piasini. The person I talked with was interested when I told him I have a dynamometer (they want their dealers to have a dyno) but when I asked about tuning software, he said they aren't going to be using any.

Keep in mind that some applications, the ones that use a secondary throttle blade, often use the secondary to limit power. When you access the software you can hold that open and get big HP improvements.
So, their calibrations can have significant imporvements without tuning.
When I was told that tuning software wasn't part of the deal I asked 'what if you put one on the dyno and find that it needs tuning?'

The answer?
Put a Power Commander on it!

The dealer spends $2500 for the Piasini Suite, pays something like $300 per calibration, and then has to spend another $379 for a PCV. $679 before you even start to tune.

The latest rush of 'Tuning' products are being used to communicate with the ECU but they're still into the 'canned map' delusion. Probably better than nothing, but not 'tuning.'

Communicating with the ECU is the first step in a very long journey. It's like turning toward China, taking one step and thinking (and telling your customers) you're in China.

Got me started!!!

Doug
 
#18 ·
Yes, Doug, I remember the tube. I have my F4 on the stand in the garage ready of a little TLC before winter. I'll check into it.
 
#19 ·
air box tube?

Doug;
in the air box there is a cross drilled tube on the left for the EBS solenoid air intake,
also a hole, spud to the outside, for the crankcase breather......
nothing that would be an air leak:stickpoke
'05 1000S
 
#21 ·
Doug;
in the air box there is a cross drilled tube on the left for the EBS solenoid air intake,
also a hole, spud to the outside, for the crankcase breather......
nothing that would be an air leak:stickpoke
'05 1000S
The 312 is different, there is also a tube on the right hand side for the seconday air supply.

Only the ebs valve could cause an issue although it depends what the issue is. crap fuel readings could be down to the SAS hose but like i say it depends on the nature of the leak or fault.

:)
 
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