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Solving the f4 heat issue

31K views 107 replies 26 participants last post by  theknurl 
#1 ·
Febur, a manufacturer of high end racing components( most well known for there radiators) and the U.S distributor for febur products, are currently designing a Radiator for my 2007 MV Agusta F4 312R. If I have the Italian/English translation down correctly testing results have the F4 running at roiughly 170-180 at idle.
This is a big improvement as my 2007 Mv Agusta F4 312R would run roughly between 203-212 degrees F. We should be getting the radiator in about 2 weeks. After test the machine myself I will report the figures on this for the members of this website . I do beleive that because of the tight spacing of the stock MV Agusta radiator in the F4 there might be a bit re routing of the coolant lines but I dont see it being a big job. Hopefully I will have a new computer by then( a friend who is much more computer savy than I said he gets great deals so he is picking me up a new lap top) and I can post pictures up for everyone .( I am also proud of how well the new accessories ive added from Gutsy Performance look, MVs are a stunning machine. Take care Jake
 
#3 ·
Running a upgraded waterpump, Engine ICE coolant and manual fan switch will help slow down the bike running hot.

Try running Amsoil oil as we found that this oil reduces the temperature by about 5deg C and really slows down the rising temperature and caps the temperature to about 107deg C in heavy stop go traffic with outside ambient temperature of 38deg C.
 
#4 ·
I'm not sure why you are trying to re invent the wheel, Jake, but I do like your initiative. It is well documented that the source of the problem is the amount of air flowing through the radiator and out the back. The surface area of the radiators on the F4 is adequate for cooling the bike, the problem is moving a sufficient quantity of air through the radiator. This can be accomplished two ways: go faster, or add another fan and pull more air through. A third but less desirable method is to move the coolant faster through the use of a larger pump or different impeller.

Get a Ducati 1098 fan from ebay for a few dollars, and either configure a manual switch or wire it into the existing circuit.

It's a lot less expensive, a lot less obtrusive, and works very well.
 
#5 ·
Replacing the stock exhaust (removing the catalytic converter) made an improvement in lowering temperatures for my 312.
 
#7 ·
Sorry , my mistake for not explaining that I have already upraded water pump , installed the Muzzy aluminum fan blades and am using engine ice coolant.These upgrades helped somewhat(5-10 degrees) but nothing that I would call a significant improvement I love the F4 312R but out of all my sportbikes it is runs the highest engine temps and I want to get it down to a comparable level of the others. I am also going to change the thermostate and install a Samco hose kit when I change the radiator . QUESTION: Is thermostate failier a common ailment on the F4?
 
#10 ·
Thanks Donsey, hope to see/hear you racing the F4 next year. Im suprised the MV facory isnt racing? Marketing wise its a win win situation for them.People Love new brands on the grid . Look at the Triumph Stop N Go Effort , they got more exposer running 3rd & 4th on the Triumph 675 than they did winning on the Yamaha R6. No one expects MV to win on the F4 but they like to see the MV because its different in style,sound and its history . With the F3 they actually have a good shot at winning a title in supersport/superstock. And supersport/superstock is a reletivly cheap class to run. Lastly MV is in the black financialy after making such a great deal with Harley .
 
#11 · (Edited)
Now you see Jake, if you asked myself, Noel and Joe for some input, you would have had that custom rad made so the bottom 3rd is a oil cooler :naughty:.
I have asked them in the past, but the price is just not in my league, so I use a modified F4 rad and a Ducati (shhh) oil cooler.

It's not pretty, but it works sir.
 

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#16 ·
Too right Sean

Dave = Febur f4 radiator

Donsy = Franken-radiator :stickpoke

Just kidding Donsy, I'm sure it works better than it looks :naughty::naughty::naughty:
For the price of the Febur Rad, for which I was informally quoted, I could buy a new FB Gubelini or Bituba rear shock, a new Microtec to replace the one I just blew up, and some decent fork inserts.
Budged sometimes necessitates form and function, and track use with race fairings can be different to a sexy road bike too.

I think that whole conversion cost me a little over $1500.00 at the time, parts only as I do all the labour myself.
Still perfecting it and working on a bigger oil cooler to go with the new rad from Joe, and I don't have to cut my air tubes anymore because I now get these great race air tubes from Al which leave's me with lots of room for the rad cap.

Back to Jacke's adventure though, keep us posted and show some pic's when your done mate, we love pictures :naughty:
 
#17 ·
?

Jake;
stop the all caps......we hear you

now learn to use search......you aren't inventing the wheel.....its all already been done......
the ignition maps suck
the fuel maps suck
air can't get out of the fairing
we know that

even my 910R overheated, until i put a MicroTec on it......now it will NOT go over 91C, period.....the fans come on at 85C:naughty:

PS;
all thermostats fail at about the same rate......


very, very rarely
 
#23 · (Edited)
Jake;
stop the all caps......we hear you

now learn to use search......you aren't inventing the wheel.....its all already been done......
the ignition maps suck
the fuel maps suck
air can't get out of the fairing
we know that

even my 910R overheated, until i put a MicroTec on it......now it will NOT go over 91C, period.....the fans come on at 85C:naughty:

PS;
all thermostats fail at about the same rate......

very, very rarely
Noel, here are thoughts for you and Jake :stickpoke:

ALL UPPER CASE = SHOUTING
all lower case = lazy
Using 5-6 periods as legitimate punctuation = Retarded

"Hmmm… I guess if you have a choice, most would prefer all lower case to all caps. However, unless you are handicapped or visually impaired, there really is no reason to not capitalize sentences properly.
Is hitting the shift key really too much effort to make? Those who are not proficient typers may find having to hit the shift key a PIA but in the long run, you will be taken more seriously by making this effort.
For those who are unable to use the shift key for whatever reason, simply add a little note as part of your signature file that is appended to every e-mail. For example:

P.S. Please excuse my typing in all lower case. My arthritis is such that hitting the shift key is unbearable. Thank you for your understanding…
Sincerely,
Jane Doe


As you can tell, simply communicating why you do certain things can make all the difference in the world. Not wanting to take the time to communicate properly however isn’t a very good excuse."
http://www.netmanners.com/82/caps-vs-all-small-case/
 
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#20 · (Edited)
Now for a really crazy suggestion.I know I'm going to cop it from both barrels by the technically minded,but I can only hope you still respect me in the morning.

What if you were to reverse polarity the lower fan[I'm amassuming there is one] so it blows air forward.I know it would be hot air drawn down from the upper fan,but from what has been said before,it seems the problem is not being able to get this heat out from the inside the fairing when slow running in dense traffic.Circulating the air,even if the lower radiator is now less effective having warm air blown through it,may be better than having restricted flow of hot air building up within the cocoon of the fairing.The engine would not be producing as much heat,comparitively,at these engine/road speeds,so half of the upper radiator being cooled by a cosistant airflow may be enough to keep the temperature acceptable.Obviously you couldn't do it with two upper fans as it would just loop the airflow back into into itself.
I'm sure there will be some engineering "kelvin/BTU formula" to disprove this crazy theory,but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Let the laughter begin.
 
#21 ·
The answer to that dilemma is simple: Would you think that the hotter air within the fairing will remove more heat than the cooler air outside the bike?

Q= UA (Th-Tc)
 
#24 ·
It is not.
Heat transfer capability is driven by heat transfer surface area (A--the radiator), a thermal constant for the materials used to transfer heat (U--water), and the difference between the material having the heat removed (Th--water) and the material removing the heat (Tc).

It is actually slightly more complicated than that, but the principle is that if you lower the temperature differential...you have less ability to remove heat. If you reduce the surface area transferring that heat, you have less ability to transfer the heat. And, in a forced convection system, like our radiators, if you reduce the mass flow rate of the fluid transferring heat (water in the engine or air through the radiator), then you reduce the ability to remove heat.

Like I said, simple.

In the summer, would you rather be sitting in the hot sun with a heater blowing hotter air on you, or in the hot sun with an air conditioner blowing cool air on you?
 
#25 ·
Kevin, You Jumped Into The Middle Of A Conversation Without Saying Excuse Me!
 
#26 ·
Chuck, you're so right. Please excuse my inconsiderate behavior. :yo: (This is the "Raising my hand for my turn to speak symbol")

So, how's the foot?
 
#27 ·
To completely derail this...it's coming along in Baby Steps....:smoking:
 
#28 ·
 
#31 ·
You cannot beat the laws of physics. Heat moves from hot to cold...always, and all ways.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Ok ..talking about fans....The fan is in effect a propeller....which is in effect a rotating wing.

Now, a wing modifies the the body of air it passes through to produce lift...thats what it does and that is what is happening when your fans spin up.

An important aspect of the generation of lift is that the air passing over the curved surface of the airfoil travels faster and by dint of the laws of physics there is a resulting drop in the air pressure...and a suction effect. This is how an aeroplane counters gravity and generates lift.

So how is this related to cooling..? As a result of this reduction in pressure the temperature of the air so modified will drop and therefore your fan will be blowing air at a lower than ambient temperature over your rad.
The volume of this cooled air in effect increases the heat exchange interface of atmosphere squared against the rad and the cooled air raises the temperature gradient between the rad and the outside air mass.


Whilst on the subject..airplane designers also know that it is massively important to have a large exit area for the cooling airstream....Remember the old Memphis Belle film when the old bird is climbing away from the airfield with COWL FLAPS OPEN ; ) That is to increase cooling massively whilst the old Wright Cyclones are going full thrash to gain height.

This is why the 2010 F4 has whacking great exit vents for the outflowing air....
 
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